+- Integrative Bodybuilding (http://drscottstevenson.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Fortitude Training - The Forum (http://drscottstevenson.com/forum/forum-53.html)
+--- Forum: Fortitude Training™ - Program Info, Basics, Testimonals (http://drscottstevenson.com/forum/forum-54.html)
+--- Thread: FT Questions.... (/thread-244.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
RE: FT Questions.... - thethinker48 - 04-23-2017
Hey Scott,
If you had access to unlimited funds, what kind of study/research would you do related to bodybuilding/ meathead science?
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
FT Questions.... - Powerof2 - 04-23-2017
Got the bright idea to combine phase 3 basic. day 3 and 4 together today. 2 hrs and 15 minutes later I was one hot mess! I couldn't make it to the gym last night and didn't want my workouts messing with next weeks. Needless to say I won't be doing that again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: FT Questions.... - thethinker48 - 04-25-2017
(04-23-2017, 11:15 AM)Powerof2 Wrote: Got the bright idea to combine phase 3 basic. day 3 and 4 together today. 2 hrs and 15 minutes later I was one hot mess! I couldn't make it to the gym last night and didn't want my workouts messing with next weeks. Needless to say I won't be doing that again.Woah, 2 FT workouts in one day? How'd u function the rest of the day? I'd be hooked up to oxygen taking iv fluids [emoji2]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
FT Questions.... - Powerof2 - 04-26-2017
(04-25-2017, 10:21 AM)thethinker48 Wrote: Woah, 2 FT workouts in one day? How'd u function the rest of the day? I'd be hooked up to oxygen taking iv fluids [emoji2]
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Like a slug. Even the next day was hard. Got threw lower load yesterday. Barely
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 04-26-2017
(04-23-2017, 10:42 AM)thethinker48 Wrote: Hey Scott,
If you had access to unlimited funds, what kind of study/research would you do related to bodybuilding/ meathead science?
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Unlimited funds and I'd probably start by directing the money to more important matters (eliminating starvation, poverty, etc) if that woudl even be possible (as with unlimited funds, Im not sure what happens to the global economy and the value of money...
As far as bodybuilding, I'd probably direct it toward mapping the genome more specifically (some of this has been done) to "fully" understand
1.) the genetic control of muscle mass and body fat (including adverse health consequences of manipulating such),
2.) Epigenetic control of the above and
3.) Create viral vectors to manipulate these variables to create tremendous hypertrophy and hyper plastic responses to training and diet.
I'd still want the training and diet to be part of it, just because I like training and the idea of earning it at least to some degree... Not having human effort involved would sap the joy and reward out of the journey. This would also free folks from the need / desire to use drugs (with side effects) in bodybuilding.
(04-23-2017, 11:15 AM)Powerof2 Wrote: Got the bright idea to combine phase 3 basic. day 3 and 4 together today. 2 hrs and 15 minutes later I was one hot mess! I couldn't make it to the gym last night and didn't want my workouts messing with next weeks. Needless to say I won't be doing that again.
LOL. You could always just do Day 3 of the Family Man Plan (or some variant thereof) in that situation.
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - phoebeusfenix - 04-27-2017
Ok this may seem like a redundant question - and it's not directly FT linked but after hearing it spoken about a few times between Jordan and you I am curious:
Tiny bit of background:
I am someone who has been 'dancing' around with relatively the same weight for a long time, I did get higher(~12lbs) this off season than previous ones but still stayed relatively lean(I think).
Have been training now for 14 years or so, have nutrition consistent as can be.
I am conflicted in my mind here about one thing. Some people(like Jordan, for instance), can REALLY push their bodyweight up in the off season and accrue a good amount of muscle in the process, while others think after a certain body fat % the return for fat/muscle is less than ideal. When you guys pushed Jordan's weight way up there, was body fat a concern at all? Or was it just a no holds barred fight your way to that weight and hold it as long as possible to 'solidify the gains.'
~7 years ago I worked with Skip for an off-season(6 months) and we pushed hard from 190 up to 250 at 5'7" and I looked HORRIBLE. I had eliminated all cardio and was eating crazy quantities. I was strong, of course. We then reversed it and dropped the same 60lbs and I looked relatively the same at the end as I did at the beginning.
I am contemplating doing a big off season similar to that but keeping cardio in as I am doing it now to help keep fat at bay, and possibly trying to push up to ~230 or so, which would be about 20lbs heavier than this off season.
I'm just trying to find ways to break this stuck zone I guess lol. I see some of these guys who grow 30-40lbs stage weight in a year and I'm just baffled if they've been in the game this long, how the hell they do it.
Anddd I am rambling now.
So my question: for maximum growth potential, throw caution to the wind and get that weight up there by any means necessary? Or reign it in more?
RE: FT Questions.... - Altamir - 04-27-2017
I'm very interested to see what Scott says here as this is a subject very near and dear to my heart, cause I'm still trying to figure it out.
I spent the last 2 or 3 years going from 190ish to 220ish, back and forth, back and forth. (body comp has improved in those jumps for sure, but I know what you mean as it feels like you are going nowhere fast) My wife and I go to Disney every year around the same time with her family and we joke that I have a "Disney Weight" as I've been 205-207 for the last 3 years we've gone. This year I'm happy to say I'm finally going at a heavier weight!For myself, the biggest thing I changed for myself as far as food and training went to allow this. I made smaller calories increases, and stayed stricter on my diet. I also really tried to find a better balance between training intensely and recovering. If I found I was not progressing after a week or so, I made immediate adjustments and almost always saw very good results and got back to progressing immediately, instead of just banging my head against a wall. I think these two things helped me to grow steadily and slowly but consistently. The sort of switch that flipped in my head was when I sort of made the parallel connection between trying to add mass, and trying to burn fat. Nobody (at least nobody who knew what they were doing) would start a 3 month diet off with just slashing a huge caloric deficient and doing every trick in the book on week 1. You have no place to go. When I've had any success leaning out it was making small steps, adjusting, and making them again. And using each little trick only when needed. This year (and more really these past 9 to 6 months) I've tried to more apply that philosophy to mass gaining, and it seems to be working better for me. As Jordan was saying. You end your offseason before it can even begin. Scott said on his last Muscle Mind podcast the "secret" was being consistently patient, which speaks to me of doing lots of little things correct day after day week after week and watching those pennies stack up until they are dollars.
anddddd now I'm rambling
It's a good topic man. That's my 2 cents and my experience. Very interested to see what the good Dr. says
RE: FT Questions.... - Dx2 - 04-27-2017
The above 2 post is exactly what i was thinking about for long time too.
Last year as an example i had to cut weight very fast, pulled everything out of the closet since day one.
Very strong kcal deficit for getting that extra %of real fast so it would be easier in my head if i saw good progression week after week.
Eventually i lost about 14kg on very short time with alot (read way too much) muscle mass for getting to my goal.
Afterwards i had mixed feelings , because i did more bad then good.
Also having troubles with getting loose skin lower abdomen because i tend to cut to strong. (that loose skin problem seems to gets worse every cut)
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 04-27-2017
(04-27-2017, 12:57 AM)phoebeusfenix Wrote: Ok this may seem like a redundant question - and it's not directly FT linked but after hearing it spoken about a few times between Jordan and you I am curious:
Tiny bit of background:
I am someone who has been 'dancing' around with relatively the same weight for a long time, I did get higher(~12lbs) this off season than previous ones but still stayed relatively lean(I think).
Have been training now for 14 years or so, have nutrition consistent as can be.
I am conflicted in my mind here about one thing. Some people(like Jordan, for instance), can REALLY push their bodyweight up in the off season and accrue a good amount of muscle in the process, while others think after a certain body fat % the return for fat/muscle is less than ideal. When you guys pushed Jordan's weight way up there, was body fat a concern at all? Or was it just a no holds barred fight your way to that weight and hold it as long as possible to 'solidify the gains.'
~7 years ago I worked with Skip for an off-season(6 months) and we pushed hard from 190 up to 250 at 5'7" and I looked HORRIBLE. I had eliminated all cardio and was eating crazy quantities. I was strong, of course. We then reversed it and dropped the same 60lbs and I looked relatively the same at the end as I did at the beginning.
I am contemplating doing a big off season similar to that but keeping cardio in as I am doing it now to help keep fat at bay, and possibly trying to push up to ~230 or so, which would be about 20lbs heavier than this off season.
I'm just trying to find ways to break this stuck zone I guess lol. I see some of these guys who grow 30-40lbs stage weight in a year and I'm just baffled if they've been in the game this long, how the hell they do it.
Anddd I am rambling now.
So my question: for maximum growth potential, throw caution to the wind and get that weight up there by any means necessary? Or reign it in more?
Several thoughts here, but I'll go with the main one:
• Estimates of BF% CAN be useful here as one gets larger. This tells you what the relative increases in fat vs FFM (muscle) are.
• Ideally you have a reasonable goal amount of muscle mass to gain and the guides you over time. So, if you're 190 at 5% and you want to be 200 at 5%, then you've got roughly 10lb of muscle mass to gain. Figure in some loss when dieting down and you'll need to gain maybe 12-15lb of muscle mass (this can vary d/t many things - see below). So, if you track BF% as you go up, you'll need to:
1.) Gain that amount of muscle mass
2.) Be sure in doing so you don't gain so much body fat that you've got a 25week prep to look forward to.
• On must consider what supplemental means were used to gain that muscle as well as what is used pre-contest. If one makes those gains going for broke with supplements, then these will not be available as an effective of a strategy to help retain those gains when dieting.
• TRAINING is important here. I didn't see anything in your message about how much stronger you got. I don't know how much Skip pays attention to that, but IME someone who gains a massive amount of weight and also becomes a friggin' beast in the gym is gaining more muscle than someone who just goes in willy-nilly with training.
• Retaining those strength / performance gains are vital for retaining muscle. If you take your squat, incline bench and rack deads for 6-10 reps up 100-200lb during and off-season and can retain all of that when dieting (or even gain a bit), then whatever muscle came with that strength gain is yours during your diet. Use it or lose it.
(Yes, I said it! LOL)-S
RE: FT Questions.... - phoebeusfenix - 04-28-2017
In regards to the strength I've still been increasing very steadily. 2.5 years of FT and haven't gotten 'bored' or hit a big plateau yet, so in that regard I am good to go.
I am by no means complaining about my progress, I was 15lbs heavier on stage on my last outing after using FT for a year and a half or so.
I am just thinking what is the quickest way to slap on the most amount of muscle possible, is it by getting fat with no regard to body fat, or staying a bit leaner and grinding away.
Like you said in your previous podcast, consistency is key, and it's paying dividends, just always looking for a quicker route ha. I'll shut up now.
Thank you for the input.