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+--- Thread: FT Questions.... (/thread-244.html)
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RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 08-25-2014
(08-25-2014, 02:02 AM)Cerberus777 Wrote: More like hitting forehandover thinking, was a long night at work, solved the problem I didn't have lol.
Roger that!
(08-25-2014, 03:19 AM)Mr Mac Wrote: Scott where would you put a lift like Bulgarian split squats in?? Or would you leave it out. If you include these types of movements do you switch leg immediately or put a rest period in between legs??
Page 94:
How to Do Muscle Rounds (Days 3 and 4)
• Muscle Rounds (MR) are a form of a cluster set: Repetitions are broken up into sets of 4 repetitions, separated by about 10 seconds rest (typically about 5 deep breaths) for a total of 6 sets. You can use a stopwatch initially to match your breath count with elapsed time, and then just go by breaths, if you so choose. The 6 sets of 4 reps is Leo Costa’s basic confguration for a Muscle Round(7). I’ve kept this clustering (and timing interval) because it roughly creates a 1:1 work : rest ratio, which allows you to also do muscle rounds unilaterally with the same work : rest ratio by simply alternating sets of 4 reps (left-right-left-etc.) for a total of 6 sets each side. (Note that Costa’s Muscle Rounds are not performed the same as Fortitude Training Muscle Rounds – see below.)
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - Altamir - 08-28-2014
Getting ready to start my first blast, but I have two questions,
1. I don't see any trap work in FT training. Is it supposed to go in with Back Thickness? are they supposed to be hit indirectly? I love training traps, but I love training back too, and I would have to hate trading one for another. Though I assume when you are at a high enough Tier you've got enough sets you can space things out as you feel you need. If trap work were to be added, where would you recommend throwing it in Scott? (I have already messed around with doing muscle rounds with trap work and really enjoyed it, so that is my thought of where it would go, just thought it curious there was no mention of this in the book)
2. Where to place rotator cuff work? Back in high school I dislocated my shoulder in gym class and never really did anything about it (stupid kid stuff). I then proceeded to do it two more times after that, obviously because it was not healed totally. Its plagued me through lifting, and there are buckets of scar tissue because of it. however I find that if I do semi regular rotator cuff work (mostly "Y" raises seem to help the most) it keeps it feeling good, keeps the aches away, and keeps the joint stable. Where could this possibly fit in in FT?
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 08-29-2014
Hey Altamir
(08-28-2014, 11:47 PM)Altamir Wrote: Getting ready to start my first blast, but I have two questions,
1. I don't see any trap work in FT training. Is it supposed to go in with Back Thickness? are they supposed to be hit indirectly? I love training traps, but I love training back too, and I would have to hate trading one for another. Though I assume when you are at a high enough Tier you've got enough sets you can space things out as you feel you need. If trap work were to be added, where would you recommend throwing it in Scott? (I have already messed around with doing muscle rounds with trap work and really enjoyed it, so that is my thought of where it would go, just thought it curious there was no mention of this in the book)
Couple thoughts / options.
If you're doing heavy squatting and DL varieties (for back thickness), you're not going to need shrugs in most cases. Also standing calf raises, too
You can can do shrugs as a MR and even a pump set if that's where you back thickness is lacking.
The beauty here is that even at a low Tier, you're still hitting everything ~3x / week, so if you use shrugs for an MR, you're still hitting back two other times during the week.
If you were to use:
Thigh Loading
BB squats
Smitth squats
HS leverage squats
Back thickness loading:
Rack deads
BO Rows
T-Bar Row
Calves (Loading or other)
Smith Calf press (standing)
Machine Calf press, string.
(other calf - say seated) Not here you're using trap loading exercises in stead of leg pressing
---------
Then, choose from similar for MR"s for Thighs, back thickness and calves, as we'll as do a PUMP set of shrugs and maybe a MR of shrugs (e.g., on a week when you do seated calf raises and choose to use leg press for MRs), you're gonna get a lot of upper trap stimulation.
Quote:2. Where to place rotator cuff work? Back in high school I dislocated my shoulder in gym class and never really did anything about it (stupid kid stuff). I then proceeded to do it two more times after that, obviously because it was not healed totally. Its plagued me through lifting, and there are buckets of scar tissue because of it. however I find that if I do semi regular rotator cuff work (mostly "Y" raises seem to help the most) it keeps it feeling good, keeps the aches away, and keeps the joint stable. Where could this possibly fit in in FT?
I'd (me myself) keep on doing what you've been doing: (Semi-Regular) rotator cuff work so that it keeps on feeling good.
Whatever yo've been doing has been working, I presume.
NOW - If what you're not saying directly is that you DO get RC inflammation after training and b/c of the Frequency of FT, you're considered that this will be additive, that's another issue. This would tell me that your RC is still troublesome and you've just been training in such a away to not make it worse ...
as opposed to you've be maintaining a health RC and shoulder joint and there are not issues.
The distinction above is very important.
-Healthy RC - I'd personally not change a thing until / unless there is a need.
-RC / shoulder that's limping along - see a medical professional and get to the bottom of the issue.
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - Altamir - 08-29-2014
(08-29-2014, 12:03 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: Hey Altamir
Couple thoughts / options.
If you're doing heavy squatting and DL varieties (for back thickness), you're not going to need shrugs in most cases. Also standing calf raises, too
You can can do shrugs as a MR and even a pump set if that's where you back thickness is lacking.
The beauty here is that even at a low Tier, you're still hitting everything ~3x / week, so if you use shrugs for an MR, you're still hitting back two other times during the week.
If you were to use:
Thigh Loading
BB squats
Smitth squats
HS leverage squats
Back thickness loading:
Rack deads
BO Rows
T-Bar Row
Calves (Loading or other)
Smith Calf press (standing)
Machine Calf press, string.
(other calf - say seated) Not here you're using trap loading exercises in stead of leg pressing
---------
Then, choose from similar for MR"s for Thighs, back thickness and calves, as we'll as do a PUMP set of shrugs and maybe a MR of shrugs (e.g., on a week when you do seated calf raises and choose to use leg press for MRs), you're gonna get a lot of upper trap stimulation.
Thank you for all the answers and the extremely detailed response. My traps are not lacking at all, I just love a huge yoke and I really enjoy training them. If my back is lacking anywhere its width. I will most likely be doing everything you suggested, except I will not be doing DL for back thickness for two reasons. I currently plan on training Day 1 and Day 2, Saturday and Sunday morning as my gym is empty then I will not have to fight for rack or bench space and can zig-zag freely and hog all the stuff I want. I currently train heavy in the mornings now so the early morning stuff is a non issue. I just don't think squats one day and deadlifts the next day are a good idea for me. Also I have extremely high lat inserts (like halfway up my back, no joke
) and I have never really felt deadlifts in my back, only in my hams, glutes, and erectors.(08-29-2014, 12:03 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: I'd (me myself) keep on doing what you've been doing: (Semi-Regular) rotator cuff work so that it keeps on feeling good.
Whatever yo've been doing has been working, I presume.
NOW - If what you're not saying directly is that you DO get RC inflammation after training and b/c of the Frequency of FT, you're considered that this will be additive, that's another issue. This would tell me that your RC is still troublesome and you've just been training in such a away to not make it worse ...
as opposed to you've be maintaining a health RC and shoulder joint and there are not issues.
The distinction above is very important.
-Healthy RC - I'd personally not change a thing until / unless there is a need.
-RC / shoulder that's limping along - see a medical professional and get to the bottom of the issue.
-S
Thank you for the added concern. I have been to a PT twice over the years when I mangled it up pretty bad (a few years ago). When I did not keep up with the pre-hab and during an over aggressive cut. Thankfully right now its better than ever because I have been keeping up on it. Thanks!
RE: FT Questions.... - FTCC28 - 08-29-2014
Hey all, I downloaded Fortitude and have read through it this week. I am wanting to some help in getting started because I certainly do not want to waste any time doing this the wrong way.
Here is a list of key points that I gathered from my reading. I have bolded and highlighted 3 questions that I just cannot seem to find the answer to.
FORTITUDE TRAINING
6-8 WEEK CYCLE MUSCLE BUILDING PROGRAM THAT USES LOW VOLUME, HEAVY WEIGHTS, HIGH FREQUENCY AND STRETCHING
There is a 6-8 week blasting period and a cruise period that lasts a third of the time of the blast period
There is a basic (hit body parts 3x a week) and turbo version (Hit body parts 4x a week) of FT
FT consists of two loading/pump days and two muscle rounds days.
FT is highly customizable to the individual by using volume tiers
FT uses auto regulation where the lifter can make adjustments to set types and reps as needed.
FT uses occlusion stretching, flexibility stretching and extreme stretching to promote recovery and maximize muscle growth
REFERENCE PAGES
90- Loading set layout
92-93- Pump set layout
96- Cheat Sheet Layout
87-98- How to perform different set types
103- Blasting outline
BASE LOADING
The goal of loading exercises is maximum weight, only the last set of the loading set is taken to failure
Loading sets fall in the 6-12 rep range and the reps are continuous. Rest 1-2 minutes per set. Rest periods occur after you are set up for your next exercise
Use primarily DB and BB for Loading sets
Occlusion stretches are recommended after loading exercises but this is up to the individual
Rotate Loading Exercises based off of an A,B,C Grouping schedule and rotate every week with compound movements.
Aim to progress on weight or reps for one or more sets per loading movement, if no progress is made in two consecutive weeks, switch the exercise or order of exercises (If I am rotating exercises every week anyways then how is this applicable?)
When keeping the same (or some of the same) exercises in a grouping or simply switching exercise order, ignore past reps with a given exercise and weight and simply attempt to “beat the log book” with the new Grouping configuration.
Exercise Selection (ZIG-ZAGGING): Use Primary Compound Free weight exercises (Barbells, dumbbells and plate-loaded machines) or your specifc preferences for you “go to” mass building exercises. Alternate Sets of Compound Exercises with Isolation Exercises (free weights when possible) for the same muscle group. I call this back n' forth alternation between compound, multi-joint exercises and isolation (mainly single joint) exercises “zig-zagging.”
(Ok so if I am combining iso movements with compound movements, does the COMBINATION equal 1 set or do I count compound and Iso sets separately?
Order of Exercises: This will vary, depending on Volume Tier (# of sets) and how you would like to target the trained muscles. For example, an isolation exercise (hamstring curl) can precede a compound one (barbell squat) to pre- fatigue and target the hamstrings over the quads and glutes.
Isolation sets can all be taken to failure
PUMP SETS
Pump sets are within the 15-30 rep range. Reps are continuous
Pump sets are not taken to true failure
Regulate weight for pump sets based on how you feel that day
Weight for pump sets should increase over time but this is not the main focus
Use light weight for pump sets and primarily machines and cables
For Pump Sets, the Fortitude Trainee couples exercises together (Thighs and Calves, Back and Chest, Delts and Abs, Biceps and Triceps) in a superset fashion with 1:00 rest between superset
Repetitions: Generally one would perform 15-25 (or 30) reps / set. Use partial reps, 21's, slow negatives, etc. to extend out the set, but don't release the tension during the sets. Pump sets are about pumping up the muscle, creating metabolic demand and isolating the muscle in question, not about moving heavy weights, causing muscle damage, etc.
Switch exercises and variate pump lifts regularly
Extreme stretches are recommended after pump sets
MUSCLE ROUND DAYS
Perform 6 sets of four reps with 10 seconds rest in between sets. Reps are continuous
Only reach failure once
Pick exercises that have minimal racking
You can choose to hammer away at an exercise until you become strong on it and then switch
Does the weight stay the same throughout the muscle round or am I supposed to pyramid up? I didn't see anything on this?
STRETCHING
Stretch immediately after training one muscle group and before the next group
Flexibility Stretches are 20 second stretches for PNF, Intuitive
Occlusion stretches are light isometrics for 60-90 seconds
Extreme stretches are stretching with external load for 60-90 seconds
You can progress on weight with extreme stretches but will eventually hit a maximum safe weight limit
Only use extreme on days where you can handle the extra stress
Extreme stretch after pump
Flex stretch for loading
Overload stretch for MR
BLASTING
Start out a blast with low level volume tiers or basic to prevent too much muscle damage
Should only last 4-6 weeks
Move up in volume tiers progressively
Cut the blast short if fatigue is reached too early
Drop a volume tier to extend a blast if needed
USE TURBO IF YOU RECOVER WELL OR NEED TO BRING UP A MUSCLE GROUP AFTER PROGRESSING FOR SEVERAL WEEKS
CRUISING
1/3 OF BLAST TIME SHOULD BE USED FOR INTENSIVE CRUISE PERIOD (1-2 Weeks)
ONLY USES MUSCLE ROUND DAYS
REDUCE VOLUME & FREQUENCY BUT KEEP INTENSITY
REDUCE ONE VOLUME TIER WHEN STARTING OUT
ONLY TRAIN 2/3 TIMES A WEEK, ONCE EVERY 3/4 DAYS
STICK WITH FT BASIC OR TURBO THAT YOU USED ON BLAST
Approximately the last 1/3 of Cruise (just before beginning the next Progressive Blast) should be a break from training. This last part of the Cruise could be ~2-3 days during a 1 week Cruise or ~5-6 days during a 2 week Cruise
DIET AND SUPPLEMENTATION
Don’t change diet if it is currently working
Have peri-workout nutrition in place
Take in majority of carbs 4-8 hours after lifting
Eat protein and fat rich meals around periods of inactivity
Carb Rich meals may be good for breakfast if training occurred late in the day
Night shakes are an option if it doesn’t affect sleep
High fat meals early in the day help improve fat oxidation, it is proven that the majority of carbs should be consumed post workout to reap the most results
Consider getting digestive enzymes to reduce bloating
Use a creatine monohydrate split a 5 grams dose before and after training
RE: FT Questions.... - FTCC28 - 08-29-2014
I just took a 4 day break from lifting to be fresh for FT.
This would be my first Tier 2, Week 1, Upper loading/Lower Pump workout I know FT is certainly not a cookie cutter program at all and I am trying my best to interpret it for my own needs. Can someone critique this and let me know if I am on the right track to building a successful FT program? I have lifted a few years, have a solid base build and strength, around 175 lbs, little over 6'0 and trying to build mass and strength. I am also in my mid 20s
LOADING (6-12 reps, failure on last set of compound lifts, failure on all iso lifts)
BACK THICKNESS (1 set)
Bo Smith Row (Fail on last set of compound movement which in this case is the first set)
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
BACK WIDTH (1 set)
Weighted Pull-up
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
CHEST COMPOUND (1 set) (Fail on last set of compound movement which in this case is the first set, Superset with ISO lift)
Smith Incline Bench
8/29/14
1x
CHEST ISO (1 set) (Fail on iso exercises)
Dumbbell Flat Fly
(Can fail safely on ISO movements)
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
SHOULDERS (1 set) Fail on last set of compound movement which in this case is the first set, superset with ISO lift)
DB Military Press
8/29/`14
1x
2x
SHOULDER ISO (1 set) (Fail on all iso exercises)
DB Lateral Raises
8/29/14
Stretch of choice:
1x
PUMP (15-30 reps, No true failure)
Thigh (Superset with Calf) (1 set)
Hack Squat
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
Quad/Ham (Superset) (1 set)
Leg Extension
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
Prone Curl
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
Calf (1 set)
Standing Calf Raise
8/29/14
1x
Stretch of choice:
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 08-29-2014
FTC,
A few thoughts for you.
Start a journal or a new thread, if you'd like feedback on your actual program.
You look like you're likely OVER-analysing and not seeing the big picture. (I've been in the online game a while - seen this a lot. It's not abnormal really at all, so I'm not coming down on you.) Take a deep breath, go slow and keep it simple. This is a LONG process - YEARS. You'll slow gains more stressing about minor details then from not getting them right.
Here are some answers to your questions (which reflect that you're missing the big picture, methinks, and/or you've not got a lot of experience with some basic principles of program design):
Quote:(If I am rotating exercises every week anyways then how is this applicable?)
You keep a log book and focus on progression on the main, go to, (typically compound) exercises you use for your loading sets.
[E.g., You use BB squats for your main Loading Exercise for your A Rotation. [A would be the 1st week of an A, B, C rotation when you use different Thigh loading exercises for A, B, and C, such as BB squats (A), HS plate loaded squat (B) and smith squats © ] See page 94 figure at the top of the page.
Quote:(Ok so if I am combining iso movements with compound movements, does the COMBINATION equal 1 set or do I count compound and Iso sets separately?
See page 89 in the book and figure noted above.
Quote:Does the weight stay the same throughout the muscle round or am I supposed to pyramid up? I didn't see anything on this?
See page 94-95 (bottom) in the book, specifically Repetitions (and Load): "Pick a weight such that you can perform at very least 3 sets of 4 reps, failing in the 4th to 6th set." "As a guideline for doing Muscle Rounds for the frst time, this load usually corresponds with roughly a 15 repetition maximum for a continuous straight set. Obviously, if you can’t perform three sets of 4 at the start of a MR, the weight was too heavy.)"
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - FTCC28 - 08-29-2014
(07-12-2014, 07:16 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: ARS,
I think you might be mixing up the Tiers.
With Tier I, Chest, you're just doing a single all out set to failure of compound exercise
Tier II Chest - 2 sets, meaning an isolation and a Compound. Given that you're only doing 1 compound, this can be the one taken to failure, and the isolation can also be taken to failure. This would be zig zagged, too, but really only one zig (and not the zag... LOL That's a joke. don't take that too seriously.)
Tier III: 4 sets, so you'd zig zag, but not take the 1st set of the compound to failure. (The isolation sets can be taken to failure), so it would as you have here:
------------------
So, you can see that Tier I is pretty low volume in terms of the actual work sets, but you're still going for it. I've had a high (national level) competitor who trains his ass off (he was a professional athlete in another sport) who could only do Tier I b/c he went so hard that he couldn't do more volume.
-S
This is extremely helpful. I was confused about this as well. Thanks Scott and ARS for helping make this more clear!
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 08-30-2014
(08-29-2014, 11:46 PM)FTCC28 Wrote: This is extremely helpful. I was confused about this as well. Thanks Scott and ARS for helping make this more clear!
Sure!
Just keep a good eye on the forest and don't get lost in the trees and you'll be just fine.
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - liftweights - 09-01-2014
(08-20-2014, 06:04 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: SMOOCH!!!
LW,
Remember - PUMP sets are NOT NOT NOT widow makers. Very different animals, actually.
PUMP sets are continuous - not pausing between reps. Constant tension if at all possible safely.
Widowmakers are intentionally DIScontinuous, meaning you can stop the reps mid set, pause, recover and attempt to grind out the reps, one after another, like a rest-pause set without putting down the weight (or reaching failure until the end.) A good widow maker means a long ass set with many many reps and lots of pauses to eek them out.
---------
Important point here: I've found that widow makers like that are VERY CNS taxing. Productive, but taxing and there is a limit in how many you can do, esp. for the big muscle groups.
in a program like FT, one of the main premises is to focus the stress on the muscle and keep the CNS as fresh as possible. Clean form with continuous reps that maintain the muscle tension and metabolite accumulation (e.g., doing partials as with 21's) is something you can get away with more frequently. Doing WM's can often degenerate exercise form (and cause safety and overuse injury types of issues) and just zaps you. There is a psychological difference, too. The mind is a powerful tool.
So, really keep this distinction in mind with the PUMP sets.
They're gonna be HARD as hell, but when / if you start feeling like you need to pause the reps or your form starts to falter on the PUMP sets, then this would be time to put in some pulses, partials, etc. to extend the set (but NOT pause the set and do discontinuous reps in WM style).
(Don't mean to lecture here, but just wanted to make this a clear point for others who are reading.
-S
Thanks for this Scott, I've lightened up the weight on the pump sets so they are continuous and I don't end the workout in fetal position next to the squat rack.
Up almost 10 pounds already, can't wait to see what another year or two of this will do. This is with over 9 years of training experience so i'm not untrained. - Just young