(07-06-2015, 06:08 PM)midnight Wrote: Thanks for the reply DR SS, your a superstar!

Coming from high volume, tier 1 on paper seemed like a walk in the park, but i admit after starting on tier 2 that i was wrong!

I ended up doing day 4 workout minus the back workout. I will do the back exercises today. Doms in biceps doesnt feel so extreme like yesterday.

I want to pick your brain about protein but I will find the appropriate forum for it!

(07-06-2015, 11:20 PM)Darkhorse0311 Wrote: I personally prefer to train the least to get the most if that makes sense. Back when I used to moderate on a lot of boards like ironaddicts, I saw A LOT of people that wanted to do more volume, training sessions and so on with high intensity programs like DC (and I'm sure FT if this program came out years ago lol) but the truth of the matter is not so much what you can personally put your body through 5-6 times a week but what you can recover from (and I'm not talking workout to workout either - I'm talking long term through the riggors of a six week blast). If your biceps are sore enough to where you had to drop all the back work the following day, there's your guide b/c you are right, on paper it looks minimal esp if coming from a split/high volume, but your not holding yourself back to fit volume in, you're going all out every set which is a brand new stimulus, and anything new typically equals DOMS.

Just relating my mindset which I think would help (as long as Scott doesn't mind my saying so).

(07-06-2015, 11:20 PM)Darkhorse0311 Wrote: I personally prefer to train the least to get the most if that makes sense. Back when I used to moderate on a lot of boards like ironaddicts, I saw A LOT of people that wanted to do more volume, training sessions and so on with high intensity programs like DC (and I'm sure FT if this program came out years ago lol) but the truth of the matter is not so much what you can personally put your body through 5-6 times a week but what you can recover from (and I'm not talking workout to workout either - I'm talking long term through the riggors of a six week blast). If your biceps are sore enough to where you had to drop all the back work the following day, there's your guide b/c you are right, on paper it looks minimal esp if coming from a split/high volume, but your not holding yourself back to fit volume in, you're going all out every set which is a brand new stimulus, and anything new typically equals DOMS.

Just relating my mindset which I think would help (as long as Scott doesn't mind my saying so).

(07-06-2015, 11:46 PM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: LOL - That's man. Glad to help. Sounds like I could have just waited a day or so to respond.

This is the forum to respond, but it sounds like your question might require a new thread(?).


I totally welcome and appreciate your input, DH.

-S

(07-07-2015, 10:46 AM)Darkhorse0311 Wrote: You're very welcome brother! And you're spot on about the forum too. You'd be hard pressed to find a board with a guy like Scott who's so accessible and most importantly so detail orientated with every response. I only post here due to content & the members here in particular. That's why I prefer to pay for membership bc you only get like minded folks who are just as motivated as I am. Cuts out the fat so to speak.

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: Hey, figured I'd post this here instead of starting a new thread. I'm setting up my FT routine now for when I eventually start and have quite a few questions, but most of which I think could be answered in a sentence or two

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 1. How do you know exactly how to go about the recommended multiple sets e.g. if it says 3 sets for back would that necessarily be A,B,A….or A,B,C? Is it another “depends on the individual and what needs work” thing?

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 2. When we zig-zag does it have to be compound + isolation? Almost all chest fly variations hurt my pec after a few weeks of loading due to a previous injury. I’m considering using something like a DB Twist & Press since it’s a lighter variation even though it’s certainly not an isolation.

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 3. Should one increase volume tier throughout a blast generally or just when it’s too easy? I.e. is it typical to ever just stick with tier 1 or tier 2 or tier 3 all the way through? We repeat the same workouts so rarely I would want to make sure there is progression and if we add volume it will be hard to tell. For example if the first time I did a “B” workout I 1 set of chest but then the next I’ve gone up a tier so now it’s 2-3 sets of chest then any subsequent shoulder and tricep work will be skewed and it may seem like they didn’t progress or even regressed because those muscle groups were more fatigued from the extra chest sets this time.

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 4. Just out of curiosity, why is Biceps/forearms on lower MR day?

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 5. Am I correct in thinking/seeing that the 3-day variation is almost exactly the same volume for upper loading, upper pump sets, and upper muscle rounds …so the only difference is fewer MRs for lower?

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 6. Should we be tracking the stretches for progression as well? If so I would imagine just the extreme stretches. Or should we just go at them and keep a mental note? Since I imagine these will vary considerably less (i.e. once I find a good extreme pec stretch I don’t imagine I’d change it nearly as often as chest exercises).

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 7. Any need to ever go to Turbo? It seems like there is far more variability between Tiers I, II, and III than there is between the basic and turbo version. Tier 1 basic vs turbo is noticeably different due to more volume in turbo but tiers 2 and 3 are identical volumes and even many of the muscle groups (biceps, triceps, abs) have identical frequencies too so really we’re looking at such a small difference in the grand scheme of the FT system it seems insignificant. To make things less complicated could one just stick to the basic and vary the tiers as necessary for essentially the same results?

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 8. Lastly, can I change exercise order if there are particular lifts I want to go up the most? For example I have a barbell bench goal and a barbell shoulder press goal. Can my (A) loading day have chest before delts (say BB Bench then DB Shoulder press) and (B) loading day have delts before chest (say BB Shoulder Press then Incline DB Bench)?

(07-26-2015, 08:43 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: Hey, figured I'd post this here instead of starting a new thread. I'm setting up my FT routine now for when I eventually start and have quite a few questions, but most of which I think could be answered in a sentence or two


1. How do you know exactly how to go about the recommended multiple sets e.g. if it says 3 sets for back would that necessarily be A,B,A….or A,B,C? Is it another “depends on the individual and what needs work” thing?

Quote:2. When we zig-zag does it have to be compound + isolation? Almost all chest fly variations hurt my pec after a few weeks of loading due to a previous injury. I’m considering using something like a DB Twist & Press since it’s a lighter variation even though it’s certainly not an isolation.

Quote:3. Should one increase volume tier throughout a blast generally or just when it’s too easy? I.e. is it typical to ever just stick with tier 1 or tier 2 or tier 3 all the way through? We repeat the same workouts so rarely I would want to make sure there is progression and if we add volume it will be hard to tell. For example if the first time I did a “B” workout I 1 set of chest but then the next I’ve gone up a tier so now it’s 2-3 sets of chest then any subsequent shoulder and tricep work will be skewed and it may seem like they didn’t progress or even regressed because those muscle groups were more fatigued from the extra chest sets this time.

Quote:4. Just out of curiosity, why is Biceps/forearms on lower MR day?

Quote:5. Am I correct in thinking/seeing that the 3-day variation is almost exactly the same volume for upper loading, upper pump sets, and upper muscle rounds …so the only difference is fewer MRs for lower?

Quote:6. Should we be tracking the stretches for progression as well? If so I would imagine just the extreme stretches. Or should we just go at them and keep a mental note? Since I imagine these will vary considerably less (i.e. once I find a good extreme pec stretch I don’t imagine I’d change it nearly as often as chest exercises).

Quote:7. Any need to ever go to Turbo? It seems like there is far more variability between Tiers I, II, and III than there is between the basic and turbo version. Tier 1 basic vs turbo is noticeably different due to more volume in turbo but tiers 2 and 3 are identical volumes and even many of the muscle groups (biceps, triceps, abs) have identical frequencies too so really we’re looking at such a small difference in the grand scheme of the FT system it seems insignificant. To make things less complicated could one just stick to the basic and vary the tiers as necessary for essentially the same results?

Quote:8. Lastly, can I change exercise order if there are particular lifts I want to go up the most? For example I have a barbell bench goal and a barbell shoulder press goal. Can my (A) loading day have chest before delts (say BB Bench then DB Shoulder press) and (B) loading day have delts before chest (say BB Shoulder Press then Incline DB Bench)?

Quote:I know that's a lot, thanks in advance!

(07-27-2015, 10:30 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: Thanks for the replies

Altamir:

1. I meant loading but yea that is what I thought. With MRs…man there is so much variability! Lol I’m having trouble even coming up with that many exercises I truly feel are worthwhile. If someone is doing Tier 3 then between 3 weeks of loading, pump and MR exercises you’re looking at 16-20+ exercises! I guess I still have the mentality of Dante from DC with just focusing on a few core exercises but I understand that’s what the loading days are for.

(07-27-2015, 10:30 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 2. Unfortunately since I injured my pec it seems any fly variation done over a significant period or with significant intensity hurts the area (where the right pec inserts into the shoulder area…I think it’s my pec minor). All dumbbell presses seem fine. DB Twist & Press used to cause a little irritation but has seemed fine recently. Flat barbell I do fine with as long as it’s more of a closer grip. Incline barbell I haven’t done in about 2 years as that’s what caused the issue. Incline smith is OK though so my first 3 loading exercises will probably be BB Bench, Incline Smith and Incline DB bench. I’d like to keep those going as long as possible.

(07-27-2015, 10:30 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 3. OK, I definitely think increasing volume over time is important, though I’d be fine with keeping it the same for a given blast. But I will try to increase it throughout the blast. I was surprised to see that in some of Scott’s examples they back off in volume during the blast. I know Skip used to do generally increasing volume throughout 6 weeks then take off……I was wondering why Scott would decrease volume within a blast when that would take away from the progression. I suppose the reasoning is that you generally want it increasing but if you need to back off due to fatigue then it’s better to do so in order to help get the blast to 6 weeks as opposed to stopping early?

(07-27-2015, 10:30 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: As for the 2nd part, I would expect the extra volume to hurt my subsequent lifts but I guess I just won’t worry about it and push as hard as I can

(07-27-2015, 10:30 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: 7. Hm, OK if you say so lol. With volume being equated for I would wonder how much of a difference results were but yea something to experiment with. I guess going to turbo would in theory be small jump as opposed to a big jump between tiers. So for example difficulty would increase with basic tier 1 < turbo tier 1 < basic tier 2 < turbo tier 2 < basic tier 3 < turbo tier 3…so if you wanted to increase things a bit without going up a full tier.

(07-28-2015, 11:21 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: In the section about MRs it says one can keep it very random and fresh or one can keep a lift in for a while and hammer at it until they get very strong at it and it shows in their physique.

I have always been of the opinion that getting brutally strong at an exercise is the best way to see muscle growth in that area. I am toying around with the idea of making the MR exercises the same exercises or similar to the loading exercises of the previous week..ergo you hit that same exercise once every 1.5 weeks on average instead of once every 3 weeks, but you're hitting it in different ways (higher rep rest-pause vs heavy loading).

E.g. if I do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, db shoulder press for loading exercises of the first week then in the MR workout of the 2nd week (1.5 weeks later) I would do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, smith shoulder press (because DB pressing wouldn't be good for MRs). Again different way to go at it but allows me to get even stronger on those core exercises. Additionally since we have 3-6 different loading exercises per muscle group this still provides quite a bit of variability especially when you consider the varying exercises of the pump sets.

What do you guys think? I like it but I don't want to do something clearly off from the program's intentions.

(07-28-2015, 11:21 AM)Pumped340 Wrote: In the section about MRs it says one can keep it very random and fresh or one can keep a lift in for a while and hammer at it until they get very strong at it and it shows in their physique.

I have always been of the opinion that getting brutally strong at an exercise is the best way to see muscle growth in that area. I am toying around with the idea of making the MR exercises the same exercises or similar to the loading exercises of the previous week..ergo you hit that same exercise once every 1.5 weeks on average instead of once every 3 weeks, but you're hitting it in different ways (higher rep rest-pause vs heavy loading).

E.g. if I do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, db shoulder press for loading exercises of the first week then in the MR workout of the 2nd week (1.5 weeks later) I would do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, smith shoulder press (because DB pressing wouldn't be good for MRs). Again different way to go at it but allows me to get even stronger on those core exercises. Additionally since we have 3-6 different loading exercises per muscle group this still provides quite a bit of variability especially when you consider the varying exercises of the pump sets.

What do you guys think? I like it but I don't want to do something clearly off from the program's intentions.