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+--- Thread: FT Questions.... (/thread-244.html)
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RE: FT Questions.... - Altamir - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 01:45 AM)EMPIREMIND Wrote: Starting the basic FT Layout tier 2.
Regarding calves: are the loading sets done DC style?
Nope! Tier 2 is 4 straight sets,adjusting weight to stay between 6 and 12 reps. First 3 sets taken to one or two rep before failure. Take your last set to absolute failure.
RE: FT Questions.... - EMPIREMIND - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 02:01 AM)Altamir Wrote: Nope! Tier 2 is 4 straight sets,adjusting weight to stay between 6 and 12 reps. First 3 sets taken to one or two rep before failure. Take your last set to absolute failure.
Thanks,
I know for dc calves was a very specific thing with the stretch at the bottom on every rep, just wondered if it carried over into fortitude. have been searching the book, and on here, but haven't seen anything.
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 10-26-2016
(10-25-2016, 04:17 AM)Altamir Wrote: Thanks for the detailed responseI appreciate it and unsurprisingly you bring up some valid points. I'll address possible what I think is the main one first.
I have been eating to grow (And growing!). However, what I did not think about, when writing my post above, was during my last big growth push I ate like a fiend. I put on a lot of muscle, a lot of fat, and a lot of extra weight on the bar. At the end of it, I was happy with everything but the spare tire around my waist. So in response, this time around I played it a little more conservatively, saw good muscle growth, not too bad as far as fat went, and a decent amount of extra weight on the bar (outside of the stalling methods I mentioned). Interesting point, I saw ZERO stalling the first go around. I hate to think that in order to progress in the methods I wish I have to deal with the extra fat gain, but I'm also not scared about getting a little chubby to better hit my goals. (I was just hoping there was a better way) Gives me some (no pun intended) good food for thought moving forward, and perhaps there lies a good answer in between the two.
So, you might seek out a happy middle ground, or perhaps start eating lie a fiend and then, when you reach your body fat limit (this is up to you), do a blast where you intentionally diet away fat, dropping down a Tier as needed.
Quote:I do do both loading days one after the other, It certainly has an impact. To some degree (how much I'm not certain). As I've gotten appreciably good at brutalizing my back and chest with pump sets (the day before loading sets). However my feeling was, since my chest histrionically does not recover very quickly, and my back seems to, it may not be the issue. As I completely dominated EVERY single chest set over the past three blasts. (Though the more I think about this, I used to do a lot of pressing lifts for chest, which did not work, and also why it may have stalled a lot in the past. I have now moved to doing isolation lifts, which has helped tremendously. This "historical" fact may not be as much truth as I thought, sorry for the rambling)
Yes, it seems that your back is NOT recovering as well as you suspected it would / does based on the past. You might try doing back isolation work for Pump sets (pullovers, pulldowns using the hanging ab straps - I think I might need to make a video doing those).
Quote:I mostly use free weights squat variations for thigh movements. and I did those once for MRs and really wished I never did. Do you think doing more machine based loading may help, as I can build it more with MRs? I have smith squats in my current rotation for both loading and MRs and they have certainly stalled the least out of my three lifts. So that seems like it might be a good idea. Also my ego is not to big to micro load and I'm afraid to grab the 2.5lb plates. Heck, I have not used them in a VERY long time, but when I was first starting I invested in a set of micro plates, 1/8lb, 1/4lb, 1/2lb and 1lb. and they helped, So I have faith that those methods work
It looks like the clue here is doing MR's with the same exercises as you use for loading sets. You might try doing the MR the training day before you do Lower Loading...
Quote:Finally (sorry for the novel). Any feelings or thoughts on me possibly training too high a tier level for my legs? or is that more in my camp to play around with and see what happens? (which honestly is fine, just thought it might be a part of what's going on)
I saw your post i n the other thread. That could be another solution, too. I'd try just one (or maybe two) things, just to have a better idea what's at work.
Quote:Thanks for the response, it's helped me collate some ideas in my head (and question some preconceived ones). as always your time is greatly appreciated.
You're welcome!
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 05:53 AM)EMPIREMIND Wrote: Thanks,
I know for dc calves was a very specific thing with the stretch at the bottom on every rep, just wondered if it carried over into fortitude. have been searching the book, and on here, but haven't seen anything.
Altamir's got you covered.
That's really kind of an interesting question thought, though.
Aside from the fact that I've borrowed doing RP's for adductors (?), why would you think I'd use a DC style calf training strategy and not explain it in the section on loading sets?
(As an aside, it's really interesting that I'd say >50% of the questions about FT are found in the section on how to do the set types (p. 87 onward). I'm really going to have to make that section stand out somehow b/c folks seem to miss it a TON! LOL )
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - EMPIREMIND - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 08:39 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: Altamir's got you covered.
That's really kind of an interesting question thought, though.
Aside from the fact that I've borrowed doing RP's for adductors (?), why would you think I'd use a DC style calf training strategy and not explain it in the section on loading sets?
(As an aside, it's really interesting that I'd say >50% of the questions about FT are found in the section on how to do the set types (p. 87 onward). I'm really going to have to make that section stand out somehow b/c folks seem to miss it a TON! LOL )
-S
I did read the whole book twice, but its so detailed and thorough I probably will read two or three more times. it's a lot of information to digest. I more than likely missed it lol. I will re read that section.
RE: FT Questions.... - Altamir - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 08:35 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: So, you might seek out a happy middle ground, or perhaps start eating lie a fiend and then, when you reach your body fat limit (this is up to you), do a blast where you intentionally diet away fat, dropping down a Tier as needed.
Yes, it seems that your back is NOT recovering as well as you suspected it would / does based on the past. You might try doing back isolation work for Pump sets (pullovers, pulldowns using the hanging ab straps - I think I might need to make a video doing those).
It looks like the clue here is doing MR's with the same exercises as you use for loading sets. You might try doing the MR the training day before you do Lower Loading...
I saw your post i n the other thread. That could be another solution, too. I'd try just one (or maybe two) things, just to have a better idea what's at work.
You're welcome!
-S
All of these are gems and I thank you for the time and thought. I've got some thinking to do. I have a cruise coming up, so perfect time to plan these adjustments. I could go back and forth forever, with comments and responses with you. But you've given me PLENTY here. Time to start plotting a plan for some gainz
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 10-26-2016
(10-26-2016, 09:21 PM)Altamir Wrote: All of these are gems and I thank you for the time and thought. I've got some thinking to do. I have a cruise coming up, so perfect time to plan these adjustments. I could go back and forth forever, with comments and responses with you. But you've given me PLENTY here. Time to start plotting a plan for some gainz
I'm resisting the urge to start trying out hashtags.... LOL
You're welcome, my man. Looking forward to seeing what the actually solution (or the first one!) is.
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - Kabhattacharya - 10-31-2016
Hey Dr S,
Last two weeks in the gym were great implemented your advice into a lot of my training and I really felt a difference the changes I've made are as follows:
1.Any and all pulling movements even upright rows for delts - brief pause in the contracted position before a controlled descent
2. Slow and controlled descent on delt and felt pushing movements - I have long arms so bringing the bar down all the way to my chest aggravates my right pec delt tie in - so I bring the bar down to where my forearms form a 90 degree position relative to my upper arm sometimes I'll bring them down a little lower but not by much
3. For pec movements I've adopted a slightly wider grip - my old grip width was more medium placed i.e. if I was to bring the bar down all the way to my body my thumb would almost be in my arm pits now in the same position my thumb is about 3 inches away from my pecs - again I have long arms so if I'm going to move serious poundages I need to find ways to work with my biomechanics - if you have any suggestions on this - I'm all ears!
4. Pre exhausting pecs with a set of cable flye presses - got this idea from both you and john meadows in his the brutality of mountain dog training where he mentions using a movement to really feel out the pecs first before going into the heavy heavy pressing - while I really feel my pecs on pressing movements now my weights have dropped by about 30% to 40% - pecs are pre exhausted and the tighter non ballistic form makes things a lot harder - I'm a little concerned about this just because for so many years I've had it beaten into my head that nothing builds muscle like heavy slag iron - if you're pushing and pulling heavy everything will inevitably grow - in going to stick with this but any words of wisdom would help
5. I have almost every pair of elite fts bench bands and was thinking of adding them into my pec pushing movements so that the resistance on top is as challenging as it is at the bottom of the movement - do you have any pros or cons of doing this?
6. On all rotational movements - I'm holding the contracted position for a count of 1-2 seconds or rather on all movements that have resistance in the completed position - is this ok to do?
7. I saw a couple of videos of Jordan peters doing muscle rounds and realized I was taking far too much rest between sets - so now it's a quick mental count to 10 and then back at it for the next cluster - again this has forced weights down but makes the MR feel like. 100 meter sprint a running away from brain eating zombies and as a former smoker believe me when I say I think my lungs are gonna come out of this thanking me for it - any thoughts on this?
8. Finally on pump sets I take a widowmaker approach and if I fail at let's say 19 or 20 reps I'll keep doing drop sets until I hit 35 or 40 total reps - I also like 5s in the hole and 1/3 reps etc but I find that I keep failing before hitting a respectable number of reps on those.
Anyway I'm off to Atlanta for two weeks of work so it'll be a nice break from training - further it'll allow me to digest your feedback and see how I want to go about my next last.
BTW I started implementing more auto regulation during my non loading days and it's a little uncomfortable going into the gym with a blank log book and trying to feel what would work best for MRs or Pump sets but it's gotten me doing movements I've never done before so it's keeping the whole program fresh.
All the best
Joshua
RE: FT Questions.... - Scott Stevenson - 10-31-2016
(10-31-2016, 07:06 PM)Kabhattacharya Wrote: Hey Dr S,
Last two weeks in the gym were great implemented your advice into a lot of my training and I really felt a difference the changes I've made are as follows:
1.Any and all pulling movements even upright rows for delts - brief pause in the contracted position before a controlled descent
2. Slow and controlled descent on delt and felt pushing movements - I have long arms so bringing the bar down all the way to my chest aggravates my right pec delt tie in - so I bring the bar down to where my forearms form a 90 degree position relative to my upper arm sometimes I'll bring them down a little lower but not by much
3. For pec movements I've adopted a slightly wider grip - my old grip width was more medium placed i.e. if I was to bring the bar down all the way to my body my thumb would almost be in my arm pits now in the same position my thumb is about 3 inches away from my pecs - again I have long arms so if I'm going to move serious poundages I need to find ways to work with my biomechanics - if you have any suggestions on this - I'm all ears!
First priority is training the target muscle, i.e., choosing the exercises that work for you to do so. Then, and only then, does it make sense to be progressive.
Quote:4. Pre exhausting pecs with a set of cable flye presses - got this idea from both you and john meadows in his the brutality of mountain dog training where he mentions using a movement to really feel out the pecs first before going into the heavy heavy pressing - while I really feel my pecs on pressing movements now my weights have dropped by about 30% to 40% - pecs are pre exhausted and the tighter non ballistic form makes things a lot harder - I'm a little concerned about this just because for so many years I've had it beaten into my head that nothing builds muscle like heavy slag iron - if you're pushing and pulling heavy everything will inevitably grow - in going to stick with this but any words of wisdom would help
If this is a warm-up, and not a pre-exhaust, where the goal is fatigue, then that's fine by me. If you're doing a non-standardized set before the sets you want to be progressive on, then you're reducing the validity of your log book as an indicator of progress.
Quote:5. I have almost every pair of elite fts bench bands and was thinking of adding them into my pec pushing movements so that the resistance on top is as challenging as it is at the bottom of the movement - do you have any pros or cons of doing this?
That would depend on how the movement feels to you, how you use the bands, which exercise, which band, etc. You're asking me to write an entire article on the pro's and con's of bands here. (I think this is in The Brutality... book already, eh?...)
Quote:6. On all rotational movements - I'm holding the contracted position for a count of 1-2 seconds or rather on all movements that have resistance in the completed position - is this ok to do?
Rotational movements?...
That isometric hold is going to create variability in exercise execution for Loading rounds and MR's but is a nice technique for Pump sets. Doing so will make your rep count less valid as an indicator of progress.
(You seem to be flip flopping here - changing a whole bunch of things at once and going to extremes. E.g., why not just include an "instantaneous pause" at the end of the ROM - where the weight is motionless for a split second. This is very easy to standardize vs. 1-2 seconds. One vs. Two seconds is quite a difference. For a MR, we're talking ~20 vs. 40s of isometric holding.)
Quote:7. I saw a couple of videos of Jordan peters doing muscle rounds and realized I was taking far too much rest between sets - so now it's a quick mental count to 10 and then back at it for the next cluster - again this has forced weights down but makes the MR feel like. 100 meter sprint a running away from brain eating zombies and as a former smoker believe me when I say I think my lungs are gonna come out of this thanking me for it - any thoughts on this?
So, as I've said before here (take note, I'm about to get a little bitchy), my least favorite question in many contexts is "any thoughts on this."
Yes, I can generate thoughts for hours on end on the above. That's what PhDs are trained to do - Pile it Higher and Deeper.
A Muscle Round is a Cluster sets. Each series of 4 reps is a set in the Cluster set.
A FT MR put a break of 10s or 5 breaths (which should be roughly equaled and if not so, then one would use 10 seconds) between each set of the MR.
If you want to count to 10 internally or use some other means of knowing how to determine the inter-set rest interval, that's fine, but that's not what I intended for MR's.
It's pretty simple - or it's supposed to be - and laid out in the book.
Quote:8. Finally on pump sets I take a widowmaker approach and if I fail at let's say 19 or 20 reps I'll keep doing drop sets until I hit 35 or 40 total reps - I also like 5s in the hole and 1/3 reps etc but I find that I keep failing before hitting a respectable number of reps on those.
Pump sets are NOT to be done like widow makers, which are discontinuous sets, with breaks between reps so that one can eek out as many reps. (This happens b/c there is some return of blood flow and reduced metabolism stress during the pause between reps.)
Pump sets are continuous, so you're NOT going to be doing DROP sets where you have to stop and adjust the weight.
If you can't get a respectable # of reps using the 5's into the hole, just lower the weight.
Quote:Anyway I'm off to Atlanta for two weeks of work so it'll be a nice break from training - further it'll allow me to digest your feedback and see how I want to go about my next last.
You're not going to train at all?... Your call of course, but you might look at the FAQ in the book (p. 125).
Quote:BTW I started implementing more auto regulation during my non loading days and it's a little uncomfortable going into the gym with a blank log book and trying to feel what would work best for MRs or Pump sets but it's gotten me doing movements I've never done before so it's keeping the whole program fresh.
If you're uncomfortable with using an entirely new set of exercises, then this is NOT auto-regulating. There may be exercises that you feel are great and should be staples for MR's in which can you would keep those in except for days when you felt like something else would be a better choice.
Joshua,I really think you should take another look at the book. Much of what your'e asking about is in there.
Also, when you're not sure about something, formulating a specific question - or at least attempting to - will often lead to an answer or at least narrow your area of confusion, and clarify what you DO know. Just asking "your thoughts" is a "lazy" way of getting me to give you a brain candy dump. I do that in many cases, but try to avoid it when it deny's the receiver of an opportunity to think for him / herself.
-S
RE: FT Questions.... - Kabhattacharya - 11-01-2016
Hey Dr S,
Didn't mean for the post to be not so well thought out - but it guess it came across that way
During my time in the states there will be a lot of travelling and overnight stays in different hotels and places - a lot of these are in rural areas (close to factories) and in my experience they typically don't have gyms so I thought 10 days of a break may end up doing some good given that my joints are feeling pretty neat and my right shoulder is feeling awful
I am aware of your suggestion in the book of using MRs during travel.
I understand what you mean with the isometric holds - they would create a difficult to measure variable which may not reflect like to like in the log book making true and accurate tracking difficult. I think I'll go for the momentary pause as you suggest to ensure variability in rep style and tempo is limited and week on week comparisons are accurate
I did go through the MD book again and much like what Arthur jones tried with nautilus cams the bands and chains are attempts at matching resistance and strength curves - my last experience using it on machines I had maxed out for loading was positive - so I'm thinking of bringing it back into the mix for the next blast.
As for the pre chest pressing movement I'm guessing when you say fatigue you mean the set is not to be taken to failure? So on flat smith press my typical warm up is something like this
135 x 10
185 x 5
200 x 3
225 x 1
230 x working set
Are you suggesting that prior to the working set I could do a more isolated pec move say flat cable flye press for 8-10 not to failure rest a couple of minutes and then go to 230 x working set?
I didn't mean Mike Mentzer style pre exhausting where the ISO-compound movements are supersetted without any rest my original idea was to do something like this
Finish warm ups on flat smith press, and let's say machine flye press x failure rest 2 minutes and then straight into the working set on flat smith press
I'll lower the weight on pump sets although I haven't been performing the reps in a discontinuous fashion I take your point about drop sets allowing for a break in the middle of the set. I'll also invest in a g shock watch so I can monitor my MR rest periods more accurately.
As for the exercise variance with MRs I was trying to say I'm enjoying it - did meadow rows for the first time in Mr fashion and loved it - did pec deck for MRs for the first time and loved it - that's what I was trying to say - your original post from last week to be a little more instinctive with the MRs and less regimented is working wonderfully well and being liberal with exercise selection has helped me save my right shoulder - which if late has been feeling uncomfortable with any kind of axial Loading to I just switched up to dumbbell upright rows, cable upright rows, and ez bar uprights hits the medial head very well allows you to move a decent amount of weight but no stress on the pec delt tendon
Finally this is a question or rather a search for ideas for anyone out there reading it
My gym currently has a flat bench and barbell, an adjustable bench and smith machine and a converging seated chest press as well as a cable cross over station and pec dec
My ideas for chest loading movements are as follows if there are any I've missed pls do let me know your thoughts
Flat smith presss
Various degrees of incline smith press
Flat cable chest press
Various degrees of incline cable chest press
Pec dec
Of course seated converging chest press
Most of the above can be done with bands to add a little variation from blast to blast
We do have dumbells in my gym but they peak out at 55 lbs so not very helpful for chest pressing movements
Do you or any of the other senior forum members know any tweaked / weird chest movements that you've incorporated yourselves to make things fresh and would t mind sharing? If there's someplace on the forum that already has this I'll gladly look there first.
anyway thanks again Dr S - appreciate your advice as always - please do understand I'm not trying to be lazy here I love lifting - it's been an integral part of my life for years your system of variable volume and load with high frequency has worked wonders for me - so whenever I get stuck or have a bad workout I always immediately want to get to the bottom of it - hence the posting of innumerable questions up here
Thanks
Joshua