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Training Frequency - bk777 - 10-06-2021
Hi,
I was listening to a podcast which you were on and one thing that stood out for me was the discussion regarding satellite cells and muscle growth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVBxQryVIok
My take from it was if you a hyper responder to growth then training once a week might be an optimal way to train with these cells forming for 5 days or so but for someone who responds poorly would not benefit from this level of frequency and would benefit more from a FT style approach by training the muscle 3 times per week with more frequency.
I just want to know in your expert opinion how someone could tell if they are a hyper responder or not. I’m mainly referring to myself in this scenario and I would say I have an ectomorph body type. I’m quite tall and skinny, don’t have large limbs (small wrists and forearms etc). I would say I’m currently skinny fat and to be honest I’m at a crossroads because I’m trying to lose that body fat before starting FT, but I lack much muscle so I’m not sure if I’d be better off just spending a year trying to gain size and then maybe cut to lose body fat.
That a side though I’m 41 and don’t have much to show for my age so I need to find a training frequency that would be beneficial to me and not something that will slow my progress which is why I wanted to ask you in regards to the podcast and your comments on hyper responders best suited to “bro split” style training, how I would determine if I fall under that category or not.
My gut feeling is that I am far from being a hyper responder based on the way I look now at 41 years old and my body type, but you never know. Any thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time
RE: Training Frequency - Scott Stevenson - 10-06-2021
Hey Bud!
Thanks for posting this.
So, you're right (sorry to say) - you're probably not a hyper-responder, as most would know this right off the bat, almost regardless of what type of training regime they follow. Some hyper-responders (IFBB Pros being the easiest examples in many, although not all cases) may not necessarily be mesomorphic (some might be kind of thin, but very lean, and others might even tend to be a bit "hefty" as was the case for Evan Centopani), but they almost always outdistance themselves from peers right from the get go.
I've heard to many stories of this happening, both in terms of natty training, as well as stories of guys sharing a "Cycle" of gear and one outgrowing the other tremendously. (The point in the latter being that with the PEDs in the mix, this affects motivation and guys will just put things together with training etc, even if it's just a placebo-driven change in how they approach training.)
As far as cutting vs. bulking now (I've addressed this here before), unless you really just want to be a monster (guessing not), then you might feel better leaning out.
Everyone is very different, but for many, the limit on bulking is how much you're willing to put up with as far as body fat with the idea in mind that a couple years or so of getting "fat" will mean that have the muscle you want when you diet down.
If you really are "skinny fat" and dieting down will mean you just look gaunt, then this might put you in a good place psychologically to be ready to put on some size. OTOH, you might like how you look at a lower body fat and be happy maintaining there and/or building conservatively, keeping body fat at a lower amount. (Again, to each his / her own.) Most guys will not look terribly large in a suit or regular t-shirt, but you'll have a very fit physique, which may be what you want, and at a lower body fat (perhaps only for the warmer months), you'll look how you might like to look "when it matters," i.e., when it can be seen (tank tops / vests, etc.).
I hope that helps!
-Scott
(10-06-2021, 02:02 AM)bk777 Wrote: Hi,
I was listening to a podcast which you were on and one thing that stood out for me was the discussion regarding satellite cells and muscle growth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVBxQryVIok
My take from it was if you a hyper responder to growth then training once a week might be an optimal way to train with these cells forming for 5 days or so but for someone who responds poorly would not benefit from this level of frequency and would benefit more from a FT style approach by training the muscle 3 times per week with more frequency.
I just want to know in your expert opinion how someone could tell if they are a hyper responder or not. I’m mainly referring to myself in this scenario and I would say I have an ectomorph body type. I’m quite tall and skinny, don’t have large limbs (small wrists and forearms etc). I would say I’m currently skinny fat and to be honest I’m at a crossroads because I’m trying to lose that body fat before starting FT, but I lack much muscle so I’m not sure if I’d be better off just spending a year trying to gain size and then maybe cut to lose body fat.
That a side though I’m 41 and don’t have much to show for my age so I need to find a training frequency that would be beneficial to me and not something that will slow my progress which is why I wanted to ask you in regards to the podcast and your comments on hyper responders best suited to “bro split” style training, how I would determine if I fall under that category or not.
My gut feeling is that I am far from being a hyper responder based on the way I look now at 41 years old and my body type, but you never know. Any thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time
RE: Training Frequency - bk777 - 10-07-2021
(10-06-2021, 12:18 PM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: Hey Bud!
Thanks for posting this.
So, you're right (sorry to say) - you're probably not a hyper-responder, as most would know this right off the bat, almost regardless of what type of training regime they follow. Some hyper-responders (IFBB Pros being the easiest examples in many, although not all cases) may not necessarily be mesomorphic (some might be kind of thin, but very lean, and others might even tend to be a bit "hefty" as was the case for Evan Centopani), but they almost always outdistance themselves from peers right from the get go.
I've heard to many stories of this happening, both in terms of natty training, as well as stories of guys sharing a "Cycle" of gear and one outgrowing the other tremendously. (The point in the latter being that with the PEDs in the mix, this affects motivation and guys will just put things together with training etc, even if it's just a placebo-driven change in how they approach training.)
As far as cutting vs. bulking now (I've addressed this here before), unless you really just want to be a monster (guessing not), then you might feel better leaning out.
Everyone is very different, but for many, the limit on bulking is how much you're willing to put up with as far as body fat with the idea in mind that a couple years or so of getting "fat" will mean that have the muscle you want when you diet down.
If you really are "skinny fat" and dieting down will mean you just look gaunt, then this might put you in a good place psychologically to be ready to put on some size. OTOH, you might like how you look at a lower body fat and be happy maintaining there and/or building conservatively, keeping body fat at a lower amount. (Again, to each his / her own.) Most guys will not look terribly large in a suit or regular t-shirt, but you'll have a very fit physique, which may be what you want, and at a lower body fat (perhaps only for the warmer months), you'll look how you might like to look "when it matters," i.e., when it can be seen (tank tops / vests, etc.).
I hope that helps!
-Scott
Thanks for the advice Scott, much appreciated. I'll take it all aboard and do the best I can with it. Take it easy
RE: Training Frequency - Scott Stevenson - 10-07-2021
(10-07-2021, 01:50 AM)bk777 Wrote: Thanks for the advice Scott, much appreciated. I'll take it all aboard and do the best I can with it. Take it easy
No problem!
I'd be interested (if you'd be willing to share): What of what I said influenced your thinking and in what way(s) do you plan to move forward, especially if differently given what I've said?...
-Scott
RE: Training Frequency - bk777 - 10-08-2021
(10-07-2021, 10:48 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote: No problem!
I'd be interested (if you'd be willing to share): What of what I said influenced your thinking and in what way(s) do you plan to move forward, especially if differently given what I've said?...
-Scott
I hear what you are saying regarding the fact that it's unlikely I'm a hyper-responder to which I will ditch any idea of training like a hyper-responder. "Bro-splits" obviously have their place for certain people but I guess that's not me so a higher frequency of training will be something I will have to do. That puts an end to that debate.
As for leaning out or starting to gain size, I have taken onboard your advice and decided to continue leaning out. I understand it's better for the body to start trying to gain size with less body fat so really it's probably the best way for me to play it. I must say that there may be a limit to how far I can take the dieting as I'm already down to 2100 calories and being 190lbs and around 6' 4" I don't think there is much wiggle room with continually dropping calories.
I still feel I can get a bit more out of it and then even if I get to a point where I'm not 100% or even 90% to where I want to be, if enough is enough I can switch to FT and start raising calories. I'm hoping to be able to gain size at steady rate and not pile on the pounds too quickly as ideally I'd like to have a good 12 months continuedly building muscle. We will see how it goes.
I'm not really at an optimal stage in life to be gaining size given my age and low testosterone levels but I'm hoping I can still achieve a decent physique by implementing FT and following the nutritional guide of the program and seeing what happens over the next 12-18 months.
In a perfect world I would have a respected and knowledgeable coach like yourself taking me through and showing me what needs to be done. On top of that I would be on HRT to optimise my levels and continue with that for my remaining years but it all costs money and unfortunately although it sounds cheap of me I just can't afford those things at the moment. I have too many overheads to cover and luxuries like a coach and private health care like HRT are just not something I can stretch too at the moment.
I'll attack it the way I've stated above and hopefully I will be able to get to where I want to be. It's a big help for me and I would imagine everyone in the forum having your input Scott so thanks for that. Taking time out to help us all with knowledge and advice is very much appreciated
RE: Training Frequency - Scott Stevenson - 10-08-2021
(10-08-2021, 01:57 AM)bk777 Wrote: I hear what you are saying regarding the fact that it's unlikely I'm a hyper-responder to which I will ditch any idea of training like a hyper-responder. "Bro-splits" obviously have their place for certain people but I guess that's not me so a higher frequency of training will be something I will have to do. That puts an end to that debate.
A Bro split may indeed work for you - My speculation as to why it may not makes sense (to me at least), but isn't gospel.
I'm not sure what your training experience is actually, so if you've not tried a Bro/ Pro Split, I'd not rule it out. [Most have / do early only so I presumed you had as well...(?)]
Quote:
As for leaning out or starting to gain size, I have taken onboard your advice and decided to continue leaning out. I understand it's better for the body to start trying to gain size with less body fat so really it's probably the best way for me to play it. I must say that there may be a limit to how far I can take the dieting as I'm already down to 2100 calories and being 190lbs and around 6' 4" I don't think there is much wiggle room with continually dropping calories.
There is a notion that muscle gains will come easier (better P-ratio if you want to dig on this), when leaner, but this is unlikely to be true for in most cases. Being leaner as a starting point just gives more running room, so to speak for gaining muscle with the accompanying fat, and staying within one's comfort zone.
That is a low caloric intake at that weight but the limits are mainly up to you (and I'm not suggesting anything in particular here). Getting down to contest level BF% might mean going below that kcal intake (This is purely an FYI), but for what your'e after, you are right I think about wiggle room.
Quote:
I still feel I can get a bit more out of it and then even if I get to a point where I'm not 100% or even 90% to where I want to be, if enough is enough I can switch to FT and start raising calories. I'm hoping to be able to gain size at steady rate and not pile on the pounds too quickly as ideally I'd like to have a good 12 months continuedly building muscle. We will see how it goes.
You can read here on the boards - many find with FT they can eat more so you may have that to your advantage down the road.
Quote:
I'm not really at an optimal stage in life to be gaining size given my age and low testosterone levels but I'm hoping I can still achieve a decent physique by implementing FT and following the nutritional guide of the program and seeing what happens over the next 12-18 months.
In a perfect world I would have a respected and knowledgeable coach like yourself taking me through and showing me what needs to be done. On top of that I would be on HRT to optimise my levels and continue with that for my remaining years but it all costs money and unfortunately although it sounds cheap of me I just can't afford those things at the moment. I have too many overheads to cover and luxuries like a coach and private health care like HRT are just not something I can stretch too at the moment.
Depending on how low your test levels are, this could be quite problematic for gaining muscle mass, but it might improve (test levels) as you add calories. Worth keeping in mind.
There are data suggesting the saturated fat levels can contribute to testosterone production (perhaps mechanistically simply via providing material for steroid (hormone) production.
FYI, I also have this other book - Be Your Own Bodybuilding Coach. (On my site or amazon) that is cheaper than most coaches (and is a year long guide).
Quote:
I'll attack it the way I've stated above and hopefully I will be able to get to where I want to be. It's a big help for me and I would imagine everyone in the forum having your input Scott so thanks for that. Taking time out to help us all with knowledge and advice is very much appreciated
[/quote]
Absolutely! This is why I have the forum. (You can see now why I prefer open posts of Questions, as I just wouldn't be able get back to everyone in this way in private messages. THANK YOU for posting here to help others out!)
-Scott
Training Frequency - kastro - 10-12-2021
Very interested Scott on your thoughts about gaining with a higher bf. That would be a great mm topic[emoji2]
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