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Science of pump sets - Machmood - 03-07-2016
I follow brad shoenfeld and he regularly talks about the components of hypertrophy. In FT, the pump set is to achieve some metabolic stress and to an extent muscle damage( also I believe to be able to hit a muscle 3x a week and not burnout , so some sets need to be light) anyway my question is that although a 20-30 rep set with give some metabolic stress, it seems metabolic stress is built over time not a single exercise. Meaning throughout a workout you build up more lactic acid and continue to get a better pump. Things we do for pump sets usually come after a workout to induce MORE metabolic stress, not nessasarily on its own. My question is how effective is just 1 , Maybe 2 of these sets for getting this job done??
RE: Science of pump sets - dens228 - 03-07-2016
I'm not sure what the question is?
Adding 1 or 2 pump sets after loading sets?
Adding 1 or 2 MORE pump sets?
Or are you asking if 1 or 2 pump sets as stated in the program are enough?
RE: Science of pump sets - Machmood - 03-07-2016
Question is on pump days, is 1 or 2 pump sets actually doing much?? What's the reasoning for having a day just doing pump sets??
It seems like the loading days are set up perfectly to hit every "aspect" of growth.
RE: Science of pump sets - dens228 - 03-07-2016
Scott covers that in the book.
Also, I've found that straight pump sets are not as good as utilizing some of the intensity increasing techniques in the book.
As of right now a few of us are quite fond of "5's in the hole"
On a side note most people get the best results from utilizing training they enjoy and believe in. Placebo affect but still an affect that works.
RE: Science of pump sets - Scott Stevenson - 03-07-2016
(03-07-2016, 02:58 AM)Machmood Wrote: Question is on pump days, is 1 or 2 pump sets actually doing much?? What's the reasoning for having a day just doing pump sets??
It seems like the loading days are set up perfectly to hit every "aspect" of growth.
You'll find references in the book to what I mention, of course. See also the Table on the bottom of page 96.
Here's the idea:
We're employing different "modes" of resistance exercise. Call it conjugate bodybuilding here in terms of the set type, all of which can be effective for increasing muscle size.
So, from a Load (intensity) perspective, we're varying the load:
Loading Set: 6-12RM
MR's: ~15RM (but can vary depending on where the failure set is in the MR
Pump: ~15/20 - 30RM (but can also vary depending on how the set is performed)
From a motor unit activation perspective and development of fatigue, there is variation as well:
Loading: Straight, continuous Set
MR: Cluster Set (increasing levels of fatigue as the MR progresses)
Pump: Straight continuous set, but with varying ranges of motion, tempo, etc. (as with 21's, 5's into the hole, etc.)
From a metabolic stress and TUT standpoint:
Loading Set: Shortest TUT (<12 reps)
MR: Medium TUT (24 Reps)
Pump: Longest TUT (Partial reps, etc. extend the set)
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So, what does the science have to say?...
Well, Stu Phillips group has put forth the most important info. in this regard:
Myofibrillar Protein Synthesis and molecular signaling is stimulated to the same extent or more so with a 3 sets 30%1RM load (~24 reps) TAKEN TO FAILURE vs. a 90%1RM (5 reps) Load (to failure): 1. Burd NA, West DW, Staples AW, Atherton PJ, Baker JM, Moore DR, Holwerda AM, Parise G, Rennie MJ, Baker SK, and Phillips SM. Low-load high volume resistance exercise stimulates muscle protein synthesis more than high-load low volume resistance exercise in young men. PLoS One 5: e12033, 2010. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0012033
They changed the loads a bit (80%1RM vs. 30%1RM) and found tha 3 sets increased muscle size to the same extent. 1. Mitchell CJ, Churchward-Venne TA, West DW, Burd NA, Breen L, Baker SK, and Phillips SM. Resistance exercise load does not determine training-mediated hypertrophic gains in young men. Journal of applied physiology 113: 71-77, 2012. Resistance exercise load does not determine training-mediated hypertrophic gains in young men. - PubMed - NCBI
Also, slowing the reps down using this same (30%1RM) load increases the stimulation of muscle protein synthesis (this is the notion of time under tension), which you can employ with the Pump set technique you choose: 1. Burd NA, Andrews RJ, West DW, Little JP, Cochran AJ, Hector AJ, Cashaback JG, Gibala MJ, Potvin JR, Baker SK, and Phillips SM. Muscle time under tension during resistance exercise stimulates differential muscle protein sub-fractional synthetic responses in men. J Physiol 590: 351-362, 2012.
Whether or not the muscle is occluded (again training at 30%1RM) does not neccessarily matter in terms of the increase in size (at least initially): Muscular adaptations to fatiguing exercise with and without blood flow restriction - Fahs - 2014 - Clinical Physiology and Functional Imaging - Wiley Online Library
And, a more recent study found that using EITHER ONE or THREE sets of a 20% or 50% 1RM load, regardless of OCCLUSION (training 2x / week x 8 weeks) increased muscle size to the same extent. Here's a Figure from that study. Low-load resistance training promotes muscular adaptation regardless of vascular occlusion, load, or volume - Springer
[attachment=797]
So, 1 set unoccluded will get the job done.
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So, to review (and add some thoughts):
• Low load and high load both increase muscle size.
• Low load with low volume (just 1 set) has this effect. NOTE that this single (or two at higher volume Tiers) set in Fortitude Training is in the context of the rest of the week's training, as well. Volume is adjustable.
• The muscle need not be occluded (ala BFR) to have this effect.
• Low load increases muscle endurance (See the Mitchell et al. study) to a greater extent than higher load training. This will carry over into Loading sets and MR's and give you the ability to get more reps with a given load (and do more work in training, and likely get a greater EPOC, etc.)
• Also, the lighter loads allow for:
-Using exercises that don't lend themselves to heavier load training (machines, cable, etc.), which adds variety.
-Ease the stress on joints
-Add variety with the Pump set strategies, which is also a point of varying the overall stimulus / stress of training (depending on how hard you push on the Pump sets).
-Have training that's intuitive / fun.
-And get a nice pump, which you gotta dig.
-S
RE: Science of pump sets - Machmood - 03-10-2016
Instead of making Another thread I will just ask here. As great as DC is, It's really brainwashed me in terms of I refuse to not take any sets to failure. Or at the very least I feel like I've missed out if I don't. Could you briefly describe why you chose loading sets in the higher tiers to not take that first set to failure. Also what Benefit does taking an ISO movement to failure between loading sets. Won't that just fatigue you and take away from your big movement ??
RE: Science of pump sets - Scott Stevenson - 03-10-2016
(03-10-2016, 11:50 AM)Machmood Wrote: Instead of making Another thread I will just ask here. As great as DC is, It's really brainwashed me in terms of I refuse to not take any sets to failure. Or at the very least I feel like I've missed out if I don't. Could you briefly describe why you chose loading sets in the higher tiers to not take that first set to failure.
By "brief." you mean not as long as my last answer?... LOL
See p.17 of the book.
Quote:Also what Benefit does taking an ISO movement to failure between loading sets. Won't that just fatigue you and take away from your big movement ??
This adds training volume for the intended muscle (but with lesser nervous system stress than the compounds movement) and yes, intentionally fatigues the *target* muscle (pre-fatigues if ou do the Iso exercise before the compound ones) to make sure that, for instance, chest exercises are chest focused vs. anterior delt.
The iso exercise also generally adds variety of stimulus, allowing you to distribute the loading / stress across the muscle belly in a given workout (e.g., use a decline fly with an incline press for pec loading sets).
Order of iso / compound movements for the loading sets also creates another way to re-arrange loading sets if you get to a place where strength is plateauing but you want to stick with certain "go to" exercises. E.g., if you like incline BB presses (in a rack for safety) and are not gaining, you can start putting the ISO fly movement BEFORE the incline BB press and then start gaining (with a lighter BB press load d/t the pre-fatigue) with that Loading set Configuration. (You can also vary out the isolation exercise and keep the same Compound if the compound is the one you dig, or vice versa.)
So, if the actual load used for the iso movement is 10% less, but your'e gaining progressively, you will still gain size. This was / is said many a time in the context of DC training.
I've had people (former DC trainers) try to take every set to failure before and hang with higher volume tiers. This tends to bring their blasts to a screeching halt (e..g, like barely if even 3 weeks in vs. going 5-6 weeks). That seems to extend the time needed to recover between blast as well, such that the normal (⅓ of blast) Intensive cruise time isn't enough: The next blast suffers even more.
But, as I pretty much always say - I'm for folks experimenting to find what works best for them. (But doing things the way I set it out for at least a blast or two give you common ground for discussion with the people who have done the same.)
-S
RE: Science of pump sets - Machmood - 03-11-2016
In respect to progressing, I hear brad shoenfeld talk a lot about overall volume being the biggest Cue for hypertrophy . I wanna outline 2 scenarios and see your thoughts.
Scenario 1
Typical FT setup, let's say basic tier 2. Someone is able to progress on every lift marginally each time for loading and MRs. Say 5lbs or a rep or 2 each time . Basically exactly what you would want to see
Scenario 2
Someone jumps right into turbo tier 3, with loads of volume. Over their blast tney don't gain any strength but also don't lose any. So essentially they're doing double to triple the volume , but not progressing .
Which scenario do you see as more favorable ?? I know you advocate climbing up tiers mid blast, is this to simply see what you can handle , or is there an aspect of functionally over training and then hopefully sling shooting during the deload and seeing Strength gains
RE: Science of pump sets - Scott Stevenson - 03-11-2016
I'm going to keep my answers short, MM. I'm providing good detail to open things up for discussion, but without any recognition that you're receiving my response, that seem fruitless.
(03-11-2016, 04:11 AM)Machmood Wrote: In respect to progressing, I hear brad shoenfeld talk a lot about overall volume being the biggest Cue for hypertrophy . I wanna outline 2 scenarios and see your thoughts.
Scenario 1
Typical FT setup, let's say basic tier 2. Someone is able to progress on every lift marginally each time for loading and MRs. Say 5lbs or a rep or 2 each time . Basically exactly what you would want to see
Scenario 2
Someone jumps right into turbo tier 3, with loads of volume. Over their blast tney don't gain any strength but also don't lose any. So essentially they're doing double to triple the volume , but not progressing .
Turbo and Basic have equivalent volume. The difference is frequency.
Tier III is not triple the volume of Tier II. (Tier III is perhaps 2-2.5 times the volume if Tier I (one)
Quote:Which scenario do you see as more favorable ?? I know you advocate climbing up tiers mid blast, is this to simply see what you can handle , or is there an aspect of functionally over training and then hopefully sling shooting during the deload and seeing Strength gains
I don't necessarily advocate moving up Tiers unless that seems to match someone's recovery level. This is a form of auto-regulation
The Intensive Cruise is a taper, and yes, they idea is to butt up against overreaching / functional overtraining at the end of the Blast. This is a nebulous zone and up to the individual to experiment with.
I'd got with Scenario 1 each and every time as preferable (assuming the person is not dieting down and that's the main reason for not making strength gains). Strength and muscle mass will generally go hand in hand and if someone is making NO strength gains using this program (while gaining weight) then I'd say that something is amiss. (There could be reasons such as outside stress, changes in supplementation, etc., so context is important).
(I've got more thoughts, but I'll stop there.)
-S[/quote]
RE: Science of pump sets - Machmood - 03-11-2016
The reason I said the turbo would be higher volume is because adding more sets/reps In a week would be a higher volume load for that given week. I know many peoples motto is the most volume And the most frequency you can recover from would be be optimal. My question then becomes what's the best indicator?? Strength acrual, adding more volume/frequency and not losing strength, periodizing strength phases with volume phases etc etc