FT Questions....

[Scott Stevenson]

You ever experiment with higher rep MRs Scott?

I've been taking my 6th set of MR for close stance leg press into the 6-10 rep range instead of 4 and then upping the weight; legs have been responding better but man is it a form of medieval torture.

I wonder if you've ever done (and knowing your masochistic mind, I'm betting you have) done MRs with 5 or 6 reps each per set for legs?

Yes I did play around with that a little bit, and of course that can be done, no doubt. Obviously I thought out as things a decent amount in how I set up the set types in FT, but this is not to say that there has been any direct scientific evidence comparing, let say, the effects of a 3 vs. a 5 vs. a 7 rep / set MR.

There are cluster sets like DC's rest pause sets and Borge Fagerli's myo reps that have different configurations that are effective (although I've not really played around with them myo-reps).

There has been a time or two (when traveling and trying to squeeze in a workout of example) that i was using the whole stack on a machine and could tell right off that I'd be getting through to the 6th set and doing quite a few reps there where I decided to go with sets of 5 or 6 for each set.

Someone who is recovering from an injury might use a lighter load and go with a 6 reps / set configuration, too, working up to doing the standard FT MR and then heavy loading (straight) sets as rehab progresses.

-S

[nordan]

Okay so I've just got to the end of this thread having re-read all 121 pages...
It's crazy have I'm nearly a year into Fortitude and still learning, it just go's to show how much thought went into developing this program.. how deep / complex it is.
One thing I learnt from re-reading the thread is that after all this time, I have been doing pump sets wrong and instead doing them as below.

Thigh
1 min rest
quad
1 min rest
ham
1 min rest
thigh
1 min rest
calfs

Although I have been doing them wrong they've still been absolutely brutal & taken to the absolute limit. I can say that progress has been made for sure however
I decided that for this blast I'll revert to as outlined in the book and what can I say.. the pump was so friggen intense (not that it hasn't been each session) I had to tap out and actually throw up. I've only done this a handful of times throughout my training career and my legs must of inflated by about 4 inches.. The combination of doing a 60 rep set on the 45 degree leg press, into 1 1/2 reps on the leg ext was bad enough.. hitting a bout of 5's into the hole on smith squats followed on by 40 rep + hold on the lying ham curl sent me over the edge. Going forward I am going to continue with the above (proper) approach and see how much additional growth can be made (hopefully lots).

Every time I am about to perform this part of the workout all that flashes through my head is what Altamir wrote which was "welcome to a special kind of hell"

Altamir bud, If you read this.. you've absolutely nailed it with that quote.

Now onto an actual question

As of current I am in a mass gain phase but trying to keep it as tight as possible in regards to condition so that I can spend as much time as possible in said phase. Scott, what are your thoughts on tailoring training day calories based on training expenditure.

e.g. lower load / upper pump - 3000 kcals
upper load / lower pump - 2800 kcals
lower focus MR's - 3000 kcals
upper focus MR's - 2800 kcals

You can see in the above examples that although the full body is being trained in both, the upper loading days are slightly less in regards to overall calories.
I find typically I burn approx. 2-300 less on any push focused day which I guess is inevitable so to speak... I know JP is quite fond of this approach but have you done anything of this nature before with either yourself or with your clients?

I have in the past kept calories the same on both days but feel like I am gaining slightly more fluff than I would like by possibly overshooting it a little on the push focused days. Weight gain was at .8lbs a week when calories were the same however since adopting this approach it has dropped to a steady .5lbs a week. Strength is still on the up however pullups are stagnating a little in terms of weight and reps although I am heavier each time I've performed them so technically that's progressive overload / progression ?

I am natural and trying to stay true with the amount of muscle which can be gained per month so to speak, I think 1lb weight gain a month is realistic with muscle being in favour so even then I am overshooting the mark.

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Nordan!

CONGRATS on the progress!!!

So, if what you're doing is working, I'd not change it. However sets of 40 and 60 reps are not what I'd typically suggest for Pump sets - the recommended rep range tops out at 30. Again, if it ain't broke and you're willing to endure it.

I guess you've got a an apple watch or a fit bit or something to guage your energy expenditure?... Regardless, it sounds like you've got the right idea as far as titrating your calories relative to how you train on those days. Tailoring your diet and training to YOU is definitely the way to go.

KEEP KICKING ASS!!!

-S

[nordan]

Hey Nordan!

CONGRATS on the progress!!!

So, if what you're doing is working, I'd not change it. However sets of 40 and 60 reps are not what I'd typically suggest for Pump sets - the recommended rep range tops out at 30. Again, if it ain't broke and you're willing to endure it.

I guess you've got a an apple watch or a fit bit or something to guage your energy expenditure?... Regardless, it sounds like you've got the right idea as far as titrating your calories relative to how you train on those days. Tailoring your diet and training to YOU is definitely the way to go.

KEEP KICKING ASS!!!

-S

Thanks Doc,

Ill take note your suggestions, is this purely based on a CNS perspective ? What's the reasoning behind this (keeping <30)?

Yes I use a polar HR tracker and I roughly burn 200 less on day 2 and 4 so tailoring to suit.. It's also fun to see how hard I can get that HR.. Split squats both in the smith machine and DB's (holding in both hands) sees my HR hit 175+ which is torture (in a good way).

[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks Doc,

Ill take note your suggestions, is this purely based on a CNS perspective ? What's the reasoning behind this (keeping <30)?

Loads can become really quite low when you get to say 50 reps. This is not to say that that can't be a strategy for some folks, but many people are going "gas out" meaning that the cardiorespiratory system can be a limiting factor here.

Also at loads that light, continuous tension doesn't guarantee an occlusion effect in the activated muscle, so while there is metabolic stress of course, it's stress that accumulated without the same kind of loading and mainly only later in the set. (The studies showing that light loads work to produce muscle growth compared for example 80% with 30%1RM. 30%1RM in a knee extension produced reps that were just above 30 and in the low mid-twenties across the three sets (on average). I'm more into the reps range to produce failure vs. %1RM as 1RM tests aren't very stable in the untrained as have been studied mainly in these experiments.)

And yes, you're right - doing those to a true failure point can be CNS destroyer if you really go to town.

Yes I use a polar HR tracker and I roughly burn 200 less on day 2 and 4 so tailoring to suit.. It's also fun to see how hard I can get that HR.. Split squats both in the smith machine and DB's (holding in both hands) sees my HR hit 175+ which is torture (in a good way).

Roger that r.e. calories.

Of course, note the extent to which you want to ensure recovery can be directed using food too, but you can only eat so much and not run into excessive fat gain (for some folks).

I.e., if you legs are well developed compared to your upper body, you might want to shift caloric intake toward the upper body on that day, even if your caloric expenditure is a bit less.

Matching caloric (daily) expenditure is one thing to consider when setting up your diet, but allocation of food as a primary recovery / growth resource in the context of overall caloric intake (excess) is another.


My HR max according to my fitbit was 189 the other day after a set that actually didn't feel as difficult from a cardiac perspective as many I've done. (The most oft. used estimate of my HRmax based on age is 173.) I've hand timed it at ~200 before.

-S

[Flexhanney101]

Any you guys had any gastric problems with pepto pro?
I done a good scan and it came back that I had a reaction to cows milk.
Since I cut whey protein from my diet I have noticed a difference just nervous to add peptopro to my intra incase it gives me sides, gastric problems mid squat could be a bad experience if ya get me . Any input would be appreciated thanks

[nordan]

Loads can become really quite low when you get to say 50 reps. This is not to say that that can't be a strategy for some folks, but many people are going "gas out" meaning that the cardiorespiratory system can be a limiting factor here.

Also at loads that light, continuous tension doesn't guarantee an occlusion effect in the activated muscle, so while there is metabolic stress of course, it's stress that accumulated without the same kind of loading and mainly only later in the set. (The studies showing that light loads work to produce muscle growth compared for example 80% with 30%1RM. 30%1RM in a knee extension produced reps that were just above 30 and in the low mid-twenties across the three sets (on average). I'm more into the reps range to produce failure vs. %1RM as 1RM tests aren't very stable in the untrained as have been studied mainly in these experiments.)

And yes, you're right - doing those to a true failure point can be CNS destroyer if you really go to town.


Roger that r.e. calories.

Of course, note the extent to which you want to ensure recovery can be directed using food too, but you can only eat so much and not run into excessive fat gain (for some folks).

I.e., if you legs are well developed compared to your upper body, you might want to shift caloric intake toward the upper body on that day, even if your caloric expenditure is a bit less.

Matching caloric (daily) expenditure is one thing to consider when setting up your diet, but allocation of food as a primary recovery / growth resource in the context of overall caloric intake (excess) is another.


My HR max according to my fitbit was 189 the other day after a set that actually didn't feel as difficult from a cardiac perspective as many I've done. (The most oft. used estimate of my HRmax based on age is 173.) I've hand timed it at ~200 before.

-S

Thanks Scott, great response! Shall take note of what you've put for future ref. As of right now my chest is growing quite well (I say chest as I have noticed it more so than the other body parts) after lowering the load on every exercise I do and focusing on execution and contractions.. If anything my arms are being a little stubborn so will continue with the higher allocation of kcal on day 1 and 3 as Biceps are trained on those (I know arms are made up of 2/3 triceps but if my chest seems to be growing then hopefully I am in a sufficient surplus to warrant growth on upper body days ).

Re the HR, that's insane.. you've definitely set the bar higher for my next blast of MR's.. Ill report back if I make it!

[nordan]

Any you guys had any gastric problems with pepto pro?
I done a good scan and it came back that I had a reaction to cows milk.
Since I cut whey protein from my diet I have noticed a difference just nervous to add peptopro to my intra incase it gives me sides, gastric problems mid squat could be a bad experience if ya get me . Any input would be appreciated thanks

Hey bud, me personally haven't had any gastro problems! Cow's milk seems to cause me a few issues gas wise and so does myprotein Isolate. For this very reason I dont consume milk, only almond / coconut and have switched my whey to Dymatize ISO-100 Hydrowhey which seems to of helped. Where are you sourcing your peptopro from ?

[Flexhanney101]

Hey bud, me personally haven't had any gastro problems! Cow's milk seems to cause me a few issues gas wise and so does myprotein Isolate. For this very reason I dont consume milk, only almond / coconut and have switched my whey to Dymatize ISO-100 Hydrowhey which seems to of helped. Where are you sourcing your peptopro from ?

Dymatize didn't Agree with me at all mate, it's got to the point I've knocked all whey on the head, my pepto is from bulk powders my intra consists of 100g maltdextrix 15g pepto 15 g eaa 15 g bcaa had it this morning and need the toilet mid Sesh puts me off during the workout was thinking of just uppingthe eaa to 30 g and10 g Bcaa any thoughts ?

[nordan]

Dymatize didn't Agree with me at all mate, it's got to the point I've knocked all whey on the head, my pepto is from bulk powders my intra consists of 100g maltdextrix 15g pepto 15 g eaa 15 g bcaa had it this morning and need the toilet mid Sesh puts me off during the workout was thinking of just uppingthe eaa to 30 g and10 g Bcaa any thoughts ?

Have you tried switching the malto for HBCD?

I used to consume malto as it was cheap but it used to make me feel bloated and sick throughout especially when I took it above 70g.

I would say 70g is my tops for cyclic also from what I recall last off-season..
Dont get me wrong it is more expensive but try get it on a deal with myprotein or bulkpowders, your gut will thank you.

As of right now I am currently consuming 40g HBCD intra and its not causing any issues..

If things don't improve I would try switching the brand of peptopro too,
Genetic supplements sits really well with me, the coconut flavour tastes real good too.. I have recently switched to myprotein though as had a discount code and haven't noticed much difference if any.

If things still dont improve then I'd consider removing the peptopro all together and just consume an eaa / bcaa / HBCD mix and increase accordingly.