FT Questions....

[zmt]

As older guy - approaching 50 - I am looking for the ways to load muscle harder with less weights

recently I have found article on T-nation written by Ellington Darden, PhD (from Super Slow camp for younger guys )
where he proposed new way of performing the reps - The 30-10-30 Technique

to quote Ellington

"The 30-10-30 Technique
My new technique is named 30-10-30. That stands for a 30-second slow negative repetition, followed immediately by 10 faster positive/negative reps (one second up, two seconds down) with controlled turnarounds, followed by a finishing 30-second negative rep. The entire set takes approximately 90 seconds; 70 seconds of it involves what I call "negative uncontractions."
This is important: The name 30-10-30 involves more than those meaningful numbers. In practice, the 30-second negatives can vary from 15 to 30 seconds. Frequently, a trainee can manage the first negative repetition in 30 seconds but can barely get 15 seconds on the finishing negative. Thus, on his workout sheet, his notation would read "30-10-15."
Or sometimes, both the first and second negative might be a little too fast, so the notation might read "25-10-25."
Then, in actual high-intensity training, the faster middle reps are not always 10. Sometimes, you can only do 7, 8, or 9, so your record might read "30-8-30." Or on an energetic training day, you might do 10 easily and get another two reps, so you'd write "30-12-30."
The idea is always to work to momentary muscular fatigue on the in-between positive-negative repetitions and the finishing negative.
When you can complete any exercise in 30-12-30, that is the signal to increase the resistance by 3 to 5 percent for your subsequent workout."

whole article - here

last MR I have used this technique in place of usual way to execute reps (usual Tier 2 training with 30-10-30)

the whole training lasted way shorter
my muscle where shaking
I underestimated my strength going closer to eg. 30-14 (reps) -30
next day my muscle was still sore a little - I usually don't get sore next day

I wonder
what do you think about using 30-10-30 (from time to time) on some exercises (variation) during Pump Sets and Muscle Rounds ?

[Scott Stevenson]

As older guy - approaching 50 - I am looking for the ways to load muscle harder with less weights

recently I have found article on T-nation written by Ellington Darden, PhD (from Super Slow camp for younger guys )
where he proposed new way of performing the reps - The 30-10-30 Technique

to quote Ellington

"The 30-10-30 Technique
My new technique is named 30-10-30. That stands for a 30-second slow negative repetition, followed immediately by 10 faster positive/negative reps (one second up, two seconds down) with controlled turnarounds, followed by a finishing 30-second negative rep. The entire set takes approximately 90 seconds; 70 seconds of it involves what I call "negative uncontractions."
This is important: The name 30-10-30 involves more than those meaningful numbers. In practice, the 30-second negatives can vary from 15 to 30 seconds. Frequently, a trainee can manage the first negative repetition in 30 seconds but can barely get 15 seconds on the finishing negative. Thus, on his workout sheet, his notation would read "30-10-15."
Or sometimes, both the first and second negative might be a little too fast, so the notation might read "25-10-25."
Then, in actual high-intensity training, the faster middle reps are not always 10. Sometimes, you can only do 7, 8, or 9, so your record might read "30-8-30." Or on an energetic training day, you might do 10 easily and get another two reps, so you'd write "30-12-30."
The idea is always to work to momentary muscular fatigue on the in-between positive-negative repetitions and the finishing negative.
When you can complete any exercise in 30-12-30, that is the signal to increase the resistance by 3 to 5 percent for your subsequent workout."

whole article - here

last MR I have used this technique in place of usual way to execute reps (usual Tier 2 training with 30-10-30)

the whole training lasted way shorter
my muscle where shaking
I underestimated my strength going closer to eg. 30-14 (reps) -30
next day my muscle was still sore a little - I usually don't get sore next day

I wonder
what do you think about using 30-10-30 (from time to time) on some exercises (variation) during Pump Sets and Muscle Rounds ?

Perhaps you could ask a specific question.

I have lots of thoughts on this, but maybe you could start: What do you think about it?... Why would you do this?... What does it remedy, achieve that you'd not achieve otherwise?... What advantages does this pose?

Have you read the research on the Super slow training technique?...

-S

[zmt]

What do you think about it?...

I felt my muscles were under constant tension - hence - were tired sooner - I was encourage enough to ask this question

Why would you do this?...

to use lower loads (spare the joints) and still get the stimulation

What does it remedy, achieve that you'd not achieve otherwise?... What advantages does this pose?

to use lower loads (spare the joints)
spares also time hence maybe it could be done with higher volume (more exercises) ...?

Have you read the research on the Super slow training technique?...

it has been a while (many many years) I've been interested in Super Slow (SS) - but if remember correctly there was not much applause to SS in terms of hypertrophy ...

but not sure if it can be applied here since
we have - slow negative followed by standard reps tempo followed by slow negative - not quite SS protocol - hence my question about opinions of smarters then me

[Scott Stevenson]

I felt my muscles were under constant tension - hence - were tired sooner - I was encourage enough to ask this question


to use lower loads (spare the joints) and still get the stimulation


to use lower loads (spare the joints)
spares also time hence maybe it could be done with higher volume (more exercises) ...?



it has been a while (many many years) I've been interested in Super Slow (SS) - but if remember correctly there was not much applause to SS in terms of hypertrophy ...

but not sure if it can be applied here since
we have - slow negative followed by standard reps tempo followed by slow negative - not quite SS protocol - hence my question about opinions of smarters then me

I have to say, I've only now just looked more closely at the article... LOL Great stuff - JUSt as if it appeared 50yr ago!

So, if you're having joint issues, I'd address those in more than just switching to this technique. I'd bet there are other issues at work here (exercise selection, technique, diet, training periodization, etc.)

Yes, here's some of the literature on the super slow technique:

Google Scholar

I'm not sure it it would spare time, and thus somehow allow for greater training volume. (It seems that the slow ECC contractions would prolong the set vs. doing more full reps, making for longer sets...)

THis is a telling study: Google Scholar

"... However, training with a higher intensity at "normal" speed resulted in the greatest overall muscle fiber response in each of the variables assessed."

Still, if you'd want to use that as a Pump Set technique, I say go for it. It sounds like you're motivated to do so and got a novel stimulus out of it. (I would probably not use that technique all the time and you may also find it's better suited to specific exercises / muscle groups.)

-S

[zmt]

as usual Scott - great answer - thank you

a novel stimulus - that was my second idea why to use it - third was - to have more fun during Pump Sets and Muscle Rounds
I have also thought about only using this from time to time and on some exercises

thank you for all of the clarifications

[Scott Stevenson]

as usual Scott - great answer - thank you

a novel stimulus - that was my second idea why to use it - third was - to have more fun during Pump Sets and Muscle Rounds
I have also thought about only using this from time to time and on some exercises

thank you for all of the clarifications

I like it, my man! And, if you feel like it's not creating the stimulus you need, you can simply modify the timing / application so that it does.

-S

[duchaine]

Scott,
sometimes it happens I have a very "intense" load day and I don't know if I should train the next day.
Monday I trained legs (load). The next day, I scheduled pump sets for lower body but my legs were burning!
I felt overall energiek and I had a very good load day for upper body but my legs were hurting so much I wondered "should I train legs today? or should I rest for another day?"
Now, my question is: should I train a muscle if it is still sore?

[zmt]

I like it, my man! And, if you feel like it's not creating the stimulus you need, you can simply modify the timing / application so that it does.

-S

brilliant idea - again - thank you Scott - again

[Scott Stevenson]

Scott,
sometimes it happens I have a very "intense" load day and I don't know if I should train the next day.
Monday I trained legs (load). The next day, I scheduled pump sets for lower body but my legs were burning!
I felt overall energiek and I had a very good load day for upper body but my legs were hurting so much I wondered "should I train legs today? or should I rest for another day?"
Now, my question is: should I train a muscle if it is still sore?

My best answer to your question (last line) is "maybe, depending on how sore it is." If I never trained a sore muscle, I'd training VERY infrequently and under training, most likely.

As far as you scenario, this is why I suggest folks separate day 1 and 2 of FT with a rest day.

You'll have to size up your own level of recovery, which includes muscle soreness and auto regulate, both in terms of training volume (Tier in FT), exercise selection, whether it's time to cruise, etc., etc, etc....

-S

[duchaine]

My best answer to your question (last line) is "maybe, depending on how sore it is." If I never trained a sore muscle, I'd training VERY infrequently and under training, most likely.

As far as you scenario, this is why I suggest folks separate day 1 and 2 of FT with a rest day.

You'll have to size up your own level of recovery, which includes muscle soreness and auto regulate, both in terms of training volume (Tier in FT), exercise selection, whether it's time to cruise, etc., etc, etc....

-S

Thanks Scott.
From my personal experience, I agree with you to take a day off between day 1 and 2 of FT.
Because I do not have a great social life at the moment, sometimes I go to the gym on Sunday while Monday is rest.
training sunset instead of Monday, I can handle more volume and I have better workouts!

Strangely, even if MR are more taxing than "regular" sets, I can handle 2 consecutive days for MR.