Peri workout carbs

[Jasper87]

In the FT book the post workout replenishment of glycogen stores are described. A runner who has depleted all of his glycogen needs 600 grams. Most runners I know, don't even carry half of the muscles of what bodybuilder does.

Is there a reference to how much carbs (let's say a 100 kg BB'er) needs after a ("turbo") fortitude training when in a growth phase?

In this particular situation carbs will be limited to peri workout and on off days, carbs will be low aswell.

Can someone chime in how to read the 120g/hour rule here?

[Scott Stevenson]

In the FT book the post workout replenishment of glycogen stores are described.  A runner who has depleted all of his glycogen needs 600 grams. Most runners I know, don't even carry half of the muscles of what bodybuilder does.

Is there a reference to how much carbs (let's say a 100 kg BB'er) needs after a ("turbo") fortitude training when in a growth phase?

In this particular situation carbs will be limited to peri workout and on off days, carbs will be low aswell.

Can someone chime in how to read the 120g/hour rule here?

I think your question is answered further down on that page and the next in the boo,

If you're just wanting to focus on that statement about 120g/hr (it's not a rule, but an extrapolated value based on relative carb intake for a 100kg bodybuilder), that would simply indicate that per reference 331, 1.2g/kg / hr (120g for a 100kg bodybuilder) would rapidly replenish glycogen over a 5 hr period (reference 331: Jentjens, R. and A. Jeukendrup, Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery. Sports Med., 2003. 33(2): p. 117 - 44.)

The bullet points below the statement you screen captured (that and the next page) address resistance training.

Carbohydrate use will depend on the amount of work performed (volume x intensity as %1RM, per just further down on that same page).  In FT, Volume Tier will matter a good bit as to how much glycogen is used, as well as the size of the person/ how much they are lifting. 

More important is relative carbohydrate intake in  grams / kg body mass.   Per the last bullet point (p. 61), and the references there (339, 340) we've got a rule of thumb that 1-2g carbs / kg will replenish ~1/5 of total resting glycogen (25mmmol/kg out of a starting concentration  of 130mmol/kg) over 4 hours.  These are TOTAL ballpark figures here.

We don't know how much glycogen is used during a FT session, and it will depend on the Day (MR's vs. Loading Sets / Pump Sets) of the week, too, on top of Volume Tier.  If we presume about ~50% depletion in a session, this would require 4-5g/kg over several hours.    (This paper covers glycogen replenishment extensively - I wrote that section.  Escalante G, Stevenson SW, Barakat C, Aragon AA, and Schoenfeld BJ. Peak week recommendations for bodybuilders: an evidence based approach. BMC Sports Science, Medicine and Rehabilitation 13: 68, 2021. https://doi.org/10.1186/s13102-021-00296-y 

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There you'll see (in the above paper) that maybe 10g / kg (Carbs) would fully replenish and super compensate (over 24hr), perhaps, but again there can be a good bit of variability. (As noted in the FT book, muscle damage limits glycogen replenishment, too, so if someones getting really sore, there can be an issue there.  EPOC post resistance exercise is a related topic I've covered here, I think.)

If you're an OFF-SEASON 100kg (220lb bodybuilder) and consuming 500g carbs intra/post-WO (let's day 100g intra, 2 x 200g in the following meals) this is ballpark to getting glycogen back to a starting point, per the above.  If you're shooting for 20kcal / lb (Off-season) total intake, you might be taking in around 4400kcal. If 30% of your kcal are from fat (on a training day), this is 1320kcal from fat or about 147g (rounding)

Protein (Keep it simple): 250g  --> 1000kcal.
Fat: ~147g --> ~1300kcal.
FAT AND PROTEIN:  2300kcal.
Carbs: ????
The above leave ~2100kcal for carbs, or 525g  --> 5.25g / kg. <--- This is a safe amount I would imagine for Even Tier III Turbo (regardless of training day), but again, we don't have direct data from FT training.

With FT (and how I usually do this with most client) MORE kcal are taken in on TRAINING days (and less on non-training days).  SO we could go bump this up 600g Carbs, perhaps.

So you're safe here during the Off-Season, I'd say as far as glycogen.

This might work out like the below (using the nutrient timing strategy in the book):

Mealsl 1 - 3: 50 protein, ~50 fat--> 650kcal x 3--> ~2000kcal
(One might leave fat lower in meal 3)

Intra: 50 P, 100C (600kcal) (minimal fat here)

Post 1: 50P, 250C (900kcal) (minimal fat here)

Post 2: 50P 250C (900kcal) (Minimal fat here)

I have had MANY clients who would make meal 1-3 somewhat smaller (less fat) and put down 800-1000g carbs in the Intra and Post 1 and 2 meals.  This might be done too simply by making meal #3 a lower fat, replacing those kcal with carbs distributed within the intra and post 1 and 2 meals (as appetite allows).

Hope this helps!!!

-Scott

[Jasper87]

Gotcha! I was a bit mixed up due seeing different numbers and there is so much information; I probably need to read the book multiple times to proces it all.

Yeah I saw the notion about getting IR due to muscle damage happening. This could/should be covered by either reducing volume or initiating a cruise phase, I dont consider training at 50% an option :-p.

For now it's nice to have some extra dietary improvements before having to increase PED's beyond TRT, thank you!