FT Questions....

[dens228]

My guess is Scott came up with this method for a reason.
Doing it the way you described is still working out, but it's not Fortitude training.

Scott - Is it wrong to not zig zag exercises and to rest longer? For example today i did leg press, then leg extensions, then leg curls such as the following:

Day 1/4
Volume Tier 2
Basic FT

(In order)

Leg press 1 set x 12
~4 min rest ~
Leg press 1 set x 8 failure
~2 min rest~
Leg Extension 1 set x 12 failure
~2 min rest~
Leg Curl 1 set x 10 failure

Is performing loading days in this manner counterproductive because of our muscle rounds being so heavy? Doing the workout in this manner allowed me to do the same workout as per the manual but put up much higher numbers because I had more rest time and did not include a leg extension in between my presses. Doing this workout by the book makes me use less weight but gives me a much bigger pump.

For those wondering the workout I exampled would be done by the book like this:


Leg press 1 set not reaching failure
~2 min rest~
Leg extension failure
~2 min rest~
Leg press failure
~2 min rest~
Leg curl failure

[Scott Stevenson]

Scott - Is it wrong to not zig zag exercises and to rest longer? For example today i did leg press, then leg extensions, then leg curls such as the following:

Day 1/4
Volume Tier 2
Basic FT

(In order)

Leg press 1 set x 12
~4 min rest ~
Leg press 1 set x 8 failure
~2 min rest~
Leg Extension 1 set x 12 failure
~2 min rest~
Leg Curl 1 set x 10 failure

Is performing loading days in this manner counterproductive because of our muscle rounds being so heavy? Doing the workout in this manner allowed me to do the same workout as per the manual but put up much higher numbers because I had more rest time and did not include a leg extension in between my presses. Doing this workout by the book makes me use less weight but gives me a much bigger pump.

For those wondering the workout I exampled would be done by the book like this:


Leg press 1 set not reaching failure
~2 min rest~
Leg extension failure
~2 min rest~
Leg press failure
~2 min rest~
Leg curl failure

We're overall trying to limit taxation on the CNS with FT. You defeating this in two ways:

-Increasing rest interval.
-Not zig zagging between isolation and compound exercises.

What you've probably heard said time and time again is that as long "as you're progressing, it doesn't matter." That is true to a very large extent.

Using the heavier loads in and of themselves will stress the CNS: A 500lb x 10 squat set is more stressful than a 400lb x 10 set (using less weight d/t fatigue), in my experience.

For the really strong guys, I'd rather see guys pre-fatigue with and isolation exercise (at least one) before a compound exercise. This is going to limit strength on the exercise to the pre-fatigued muscle - the one your'e intending to train.

There are guys using FT for powerlifting and this is a different ballgame. That's not my ball of wax, but they are free to do it.

Similarly, you can train however you like, but I'd rather see you using shorter rest intervals, GETTING IN SHAPE to be able to do so, as you'll catch up strength wise once you've done a blast or two, and this fatigue resistance will carry over to the pump sets and MR's (and vice versa) and mean more loading during those sets, too...

So, while you could do this, I suspect it will beat you up more (CNS and joints - remember this was born in part of me being a guy who's been banging away for 30+ yr) and shorten your blasts.

I'd really suggest trying the program as written for at least a couple blasts to see how you improve in terms of metabolic and cardiovascular conditioning.

-S

[liftweights]

We're overall trying to limit taxation on the CNS with FT. You defeating this in two ways:

-Increasing rest interval.
-Not zig zagging between isolation and compound exercises.

What you've probably heard said time and time again is that as long "as you're progressing, it doesn't matter." That is true to a very large extent.

Using the heavier loads in and of themselves will stress the CNS: A 500lb x 10 squat set is more stressful than a 400lb x 10 set (using less weight d/t fatigue), in my experience.

For the really strong guys, I'd rather see guys pre-fatigue with and isolation exercise (at least one) before a compound exercise. This is going to limit strength on the exercise to the pre-fatigued muscle - the one your'e intending to train.

There are guys using FT for powerlifting and this is a different ballgame. That's not my ball of wax, but they are free to do it.

Similarly, you can train however you like, but I'd rather see you using shorter rest intervals, GETTING IN SHAPE to be able to do so, as you'll catch up strength wise once you've done a blast or two, and this fatigue resistance will carry over to the pump sets and MR's (and vice versa) and mean more loading during those sets, too...

So, while you could do this, I suspect it will beat you up more (CNS and joints - remember this was born in part of me being a guy who's been banging away for 30+ yr) and shorten your blasts.

I'd really suggest trying the program as written for at least a couple blasts to see how you improve in terms of metabolic and cardiovascular conditioning.

-S

Okay that's exactly what I was trying to figure out, just honestly wanted to hear the methodology behind the loading sets again when it comes to the loading goal and the CNS. I will go back to doing it strictly as prescribed. Was more of an experimental day for myself.

I truly appreciate you taking your time to answer questions like this, sorry if mine was redundant. I just couldn't find this explanation in the book despite my best efforts of ~an hour and a half of review haha. I'm sure it's in there, i'm just a dunce sometimes. Thanks again!
Loving the program, broke 230 lbs bw today!!!

[Scott Stevenson]

Okay that's exactly what I was trying to figure out, just honestly wanted to hear the methodology behind the loading sets again when it comes to the loading goal and the CNS. I will go back to doing it strictly as prescribed. Was more of an experimental day for myself.

I truly appreciate you taking your time to answer questions like this, sorry if mine was redundant. I just couldn't find this explanation in the book despite my best efforts of ~an hour and a half of review haha. I'm sure it's in there, i'm just a dunce sometimes. Thanks again!
Loving the program, broke 230 lbs bw today!!!

230 - AWESOME!!! VERY Glad to hear that. (Is this is your highest BW ever?...)

No worries - it was a good question. (And you're welcome. )

I gained a heightened awareness of how rest interval (if you pick the right one) can help with limiting CNS drain from doing Titan training. I don't recall, but I think I'm pretty close on the rest intervals he set out in there. I played around with doing it differently (longer as you have mostly, but also a time or two with shorter rest intervals) and these seemed to be a good fit (and I figured they would be a good starting point for most folks.)

The one thing that folks don't realize if coming from a program like DC or another where the focus is on eliminating fatigue before a few # of go to sets, is that you will get used to training more quickly and the loads will go up. I'm sure you were (as I was) acutely aware of how gassed you were getting (esp. with legs and back) when you first started training this way, and that you could handle more weight had you rested more.

You'll develop a good tolerance if you stick with it. IT'll still be hard as all hell, but you might be surprised at what you can do.

-S

[liftweights]

230 - AWESOME!!! VERY Glad to hear that. (Is this is your highest BW ever?...)

No worries - it was a good question. (And you're welcome. )

I gained a heightened awareness of how rest interval (if you pick the right one) can help with limiting CNS drain from doing Titan training. I don't recall, but I think I'm pretty close on the rest intervals he set out in there. I played around with doing it differently (longer as you have mostly, but also a time or two with shorter rest intervals) and these seemed to be a good fit (and I figured they would be a good starting point for most folks.)

The one thing that folks don't realize if coming from a program like DC or another where the focus is on eliminating fatigue before a few # of go to sets, is that you will get used to training more quickly and the loads will go up. I'm sure you were (as I was) acutely aware of how gassed you were getting (esp. with legs and back) when you first started training this way, and that you could handle more weight had you rested more.

You'll develop a good tolerance if you stick with it. IT'll still be hard as all hell, but you might be surprised at what you can do.

-S

It's great that you mention DC training because my experience from ~2 years of DC is what made me question not waiting longer between sets and had me hesitant to reduce my rest intervals because of how gassed I was. In the back of my mind I already knew from experience- and now know for sure how shorter rest intervals and zig zagging will spare unnecessary CNS taxing and result in more muscle growth in the long run provided you plow through the training and get used to it - which I will! (Edit: Can't forget to include joint health/safety as you mentioned - don't want to be beat up as all hell by the time I'm 40! Longevity! Gotta live to be as old as Skip one day! -Just kidding no one lives that long, only dinosaurs and tortoises.)

Yeah 230 is the heaviest I've ever been! I stayed in the 210-215 range lean for about a year - way too long. I'll get a thread started soon with progress pictures. Building on more of a basketball player's 6'4 frame at 23 years old so 230 isn't yet as impressive as it would be for most physique athletes, as I often train with a friend who weighs 230 @ 5'8 and he's looking pretty crazy. This is just the beginning though. Being really tall and getting big at the same time is something not a whole lot of people ever do - much bigger muscle bellies and an entirely different look. Going to have to compete in men's physique if I decide to stay completely natural however - but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If I got to the ~280-310 pounds necessary for my frame to compete i'd probably get sleep apnea and high blood pressure anyways.

[Scott Stevenson]

It's great that you mention DC training because my experience from ~2 years of DC is what made me question not waiting longer between sets and had me hesitant to reduce my rest intervals because of how gassed I was. In the back of my mind I already knew from experience- and now know for sure how shorter rest intervals and zig zagging will spare unnecessary CNS taxing and result in more muscle growth in the long run provided you plow through the training and get used to it - which I will! (Edit: Can't forget to include joint health/safety as you mentioned - don't want to be beat up as all hell by the time I'm 40! Longevity! Gotta live to be as old as Skip one day! -Just kidding no one lives that long, only dinosaurs and tortoises.)

Yeah 230 is the heaviest I've ever been! I stayed in the 210-215 range lean for about a year - way too long. I'll get a thread started soon with progress pictures. Building on more of a basketball player's 6'4 frame at 23 years old so 230 isn't yet as impressive as it would be for most physique athletes, as I often train with a friend who weighs 230 @ 5'8 and he's looking pretty crazy. This is just the beginning though. Being really tall and getting big at the same time is something not a whole lot of people ever do - much bigger muscle bellies and an entirely different look. Going to have to compete in men's physique if I decide to stay completely natural however - but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If I got to the ~280-310 pounds necessary for my frame to compete i'd probably get sleep apnea and high blood pressure anyways.

Well, even Ken, as old as dirt, doesn't have sleep apnea even at his heaviest, so there is hope.

yeah, that sounds about right at that height, but, man is that impressive when someone is that large.

Your training partner sounds like a big dude - will look forward to seeing how the two of you grow.

-S

[jgriff]

Last week was my first week of my first blast with FT. All I can say.....outstanding. It's early, and I'm still "feeling out" some of the techniques, but so far I'm loving this program. I started on the 3-day variation with Tier 1 volume. However, it wasn't as "high volume" as it appeared on paper, and I'm pretty sure that I can handle Tier 2 without any issues. By the way - I LOVE MR sets.......

I have a few follow-up questions........

1) When choosing exercises for the three different set types (loading, pump, MR), due to limited choices for some muscle groups, I would assume that it's alright to have an exercise used for multiple set types? I know that different exercises sometimes lend themselves better to a particular set type, but there some exercises that are very versatile and can be applied to any of the set types. For example - Hammer Strength Iso Incline Press - great for loading, great for pump, and great for MR. Now, I know the goal is to use a variety of exercises, particularly for pump sets & MR sets, which I plan to do as much as possible, but in cases where there's not many choices - is it ok to use an exercise multiple times for different set types?

2) I know it's mentioned that pump sets (and loading sets) are to be continuous, but does that include pausing under tension, such as a paused leg press or squat? I'm not going to do this for loading sets, but I'm planning on using paused versions of some exercises for my pump sets to (a) reduce the weight and (b) increase TUT. I guess this COULD apply to some loading sets for back thickness, particularly rowing exercises, where a "squeeze & hold" is preferred. Is the bottom line that pauses are not to be taken for the purpose of resting, which gives inconsistent performance logs from workout to workout?

3) I'm really finding myself limited in terms of hamstring exercises. I live outside of a tiny rural town, but relatively speaking, the gym I go to is fairly well equipped (Hammer Strength, Life Fitness & free weights) for this area, except for hamstrings. As of right now, they have no direct hamstring machines (leg curls or hyperextensions). This, coupled with a horrible injury history with my lower back (including surgery), has left me searching for exercise options. Here's what I have available:
DB stiff-legged raises - feels great, can really get a safe & deep stretch at bottom
BB stiff-legged raises - can do on Smythe too, but in both cases, needs to be LIGHT (20-30 rep)
Wide-stance (sumo) leg press - although I can't seem to feel my hams being activated that much here

Perhaps I need to really get creative here and just expand my thinking, but any suggestions would be helpful.

4) Diet related - I've always been a big fan of TrueNutrition's "MG's Powdered Muscle" formula for my peri-workout shake. Seems like this formula fits the bill quite nicely for the prescribed peri-workout shake.....

5) Diet related again - I've really become accustomed to Intermittent Fasting where I eat about 4 meals (whole food, shake, whole food, shake) from noon until 9pm. In the mornings, both at 6am & 9am, I'll have some BCAA's. I'm curious to hear thoughts on IF and how it fits into the diet demands of FT.

There is no such thing as 'peri-workout' only 'pre-workout' it is a word error American's have been using recently.

[Scott Stevenson]

There is no such thing as 'peri-workout' only 'pre-workout' it is a word error American's have been using recently.

And even Canadian researchers that like that Stu Phillips guy (what does HE know about muscle metabolism, eh?) are using terms like "peri-exercise."

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.p...dbfe6e39fd

"Nonetheless, consumption of protein and carbohydrate
during the exercise bout did result in a 50% greater
rise in MPS post-exercise implying that some benefit may
be gained by peri-workout protein consumption."

--------

Where would be if people could just make up words and prefixes like "peri-"

Peri- | Define Peri- at Dictionary.com

peri- in Medicine Expand
peri- pref.

Around; about; enclosing: perimysium.

Near: perinatal.

The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.



peri- in Science Expand
peri-
A prefix that means: "around" (as in pericardium,) or "near" (as in perihelion).
The American Heritage® Science Dictionary
Copyright © 2002. Published by Houghton Mifflin. All rights reserved.

----------

Does every American think he's a modern day Mark Twain nowadays?...



-S

[righty]

Right on the perimeter there, Dr.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[dens228]

There is no such thing as 'peri-workout' only 'pre-workout' it is a word error American's have been using recently.

What?????

Peri-

Etymology[edit]
From Ancient Greek περί (perí, “about, around”).

Prefix[edit]
peri-

around or surrounding:


As in the shake you drink around or surrounding your workout........not just before your workout as in "pre"

---

What?????

Peri-

Etymology[edit]
From Ancient Greek περί (perí, “about, around”).

Prefix[edit]
peri-

around or surrounding:


As in the shake you drink around or surrounding your workout........not just before your workout as in "pre"

Haha I was too slow in my response!