FT Questions....

[Darkhorse0311]

I personally prefer to train the least to get the most if that makes sense. Back when I used to moderate on a lot of boards like ironaddicts, I saw A LOT of people that wanted to do more volume, training sessions and so on with high intensity programs like DC (and I'm sure FT if this program came out years ago lol) but the truth of the matter is not so much what you can personally put your body through 5-6 times a week but what you can recover from (and I'm not talking workout to workout either - I'm talking long term through the riggors of a six week blast). If your biceps are sore enough to where you had to drop all the back work the following day, there's your guide b/c you are right, on paper it looks minimal esp if coming from a split/high volume, but your not holding yourself back to fit volume in, you're going all out every set which is a brand new stimulus, and anything new typically equals DOMS.

Just relating my mindset which I think would help (as long as Scott doesn't mind my saying so).

[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks for the reply DR SS, your a superstar!

Coming from high volume, tier 1 on paper seemed like a walk in the park, but i admit after starting on tier 2 that i was wrong!

I ended up doing day 4 workout minus the back workout. I will do the back exercises today. Doms in biceps doesnt feel so extreme like yesterday.

I want to pick your brain about protein but I will find the appropriate forum for it!

LOL - That's man. Glad to help. Sounds like I could have just waited a day or so to respond.

This is the forum to respond, but it sounds like your question might require a new thread(?).

I personally prefer to train the least to get the most if that makes sense. Back when I used to moderate on a lot of boards like ironaddicts, I saw A LOT of people that wanted to do more volume, training sessions and so on with high intensity programs like DC (and I'm sure FT if this program came out years ago lol) but the truth of the matter is not so much what you can personally put your body through 5-6 times a week but what you can recover from (and I'm not talking workout to workout either - I'm talking long term through the riggors of a six week blast). If your biceps are sore enough to where you had to drop all the back work the following day, there's your guide b/c you are right, on paper it looks minimal esp if coming from a split/high volume, but your not holding yourself back to fit volume in, you're going all out every set which is a brand new stimulus, and anything new typically equals DOMS.

Just relating my mindset which I think would help (as long as Scott doesn't mind my saying so).

I totally welcome and appreciate your input, DH.

-S

[midnight]

I personally prefer to train the least to get the most if that makes sense. Back when I used to moderate on a lot of boards like ironaddicts, I saw A LOT of people that wanted to do more volume, training sessions and so on with high intensity programs like DC (and I'm sure FT if this program came out years ago lol) but the truth of the matter is not so much what you can personally put your body through 5-6 times a week but what you can recover from (and I'm not talking workout to workout either - I'm talking long term through the riggors of a six week blast). If your biceps are sore enough to where you had to drop all the back work the following day, there's your guide b/c you are right, on paper it looks minimal esp if coming from a split/high volume, but your not holding yourself back to fit volume in, you're going all out every set which is a brand new stimulus, and anything new typically equals DOMS.

Just relating my mindset which I think would help (as long as Scott doesn't mind my saying so).

Your explantion is spot on and I appreciatethe reply! I love this forum!

---

LOL - That's man. Glad to help. Sounds like I could have just waited a day or so to respond.

This is the forum to respond, but it sounds like your question might require a new thread(?).


I totally welcome and appreciate your input, DH.

-S

Im off to bed after night shift but on my day off i will ask u about protein in a new thread. Not forum (my mistake)

[Darkhorse0311]

You're very welcome brother! And you're spot on about the forum too. You'd be hard pressed to find a board with a guy like Scott who's so accessible and most importantly so detail orientated with every response. I only post here due to content & the members here in particular. That's why I prefer to pay for membership bc you only get like minded folks who are just as motivated as I am. Cuts out the fat so to speak.

[Scott Stevenson]

You're very welcome brother! And you're spot on about the forum too. You'd be hard pressed to find a board with a guy like Scott who's so accessible and most importantly so detail orientated with every response. I only post here due to content & the members here in particular. That's why I prefer to pay for membership bc you only get like minded folks who are just as motivated as I am. Cuts out the fat so to speak.

It's great to have you here, man. This is what I was hoping for in terms of the board.

BTW - this goes for everyone who might be reading - if you've bought the book, you get a free subscription, so no need to pay for the Dime a Day. (You'd just need to manually remove your subscription via PayPal - I can't do that from my end - and then I'll reinstate you when you message me. )

-S

[Altamir]

Hey, figured I'd post this here instead of starting a new thread. I'm setting up my FT routine now for when I eventually start and have quite a few questions, but most of which I think could be answered in a sentence or two

Hey man! I'll answer what I can. I'm sure Scott will come in and clarify or correct what he feels is needed.

1. How do you know exactly how to go about the recommended multiple sets e.g. if it says 3 sets for back would that necessarily be A,B,A….or A,B,C? Is it another “depends on the individual and what needs work” thing?

Are you talking MR or Loading sets here? If you are talking Loading sets, it would be ABA (for tier 2, tier 3 would be ABAB), if it was MR, it would be ABC (for Tier 2, Tier 3 would be ABCD). and both you would pick based on what you needed. I hope that answers your question. Let me know if you were asking something else and I didn't get it

2. When we zig-zag does it have to be compound + isolation? Almost all chest fly variations hurt my pec after a few weeks of loading due to a previous injury. I’m considering using something like a DB Twist & Press since it’s a lighter variation even though it’s certainly not an isolation.

Scott I'm sure will have a final say on this, but this seems fine to me. I've done a twist and press before and it feels VERY much like an isolation lift to me! Worried you are going to be limited in your chest isolation loading sets? What else are you thinking of that you can do? Do you have a list?

3. Should one increase volume tier throughout a blast generally or just when it’s too easy? I.e. is it typical to ever just stick with tier 1 or tier 2 or tier 3 all the way through? We repeat the same workouts so rarely I would want to make sure there is progression and if we add volume it will be hard to tell. For example if the first time I did a “B” workout I 1 set of chest but then the next I’ve gone up a tier so now it’s 2-3 sets of chest then any subsequent shoulder and tricep work will be skewed and it may seem like they didn’t progress or even regressed because those muscle groups were more fatigued from the extra chest sets this time.

This is very personal, generally you want to try and increase volume and push yourself as hard as you can. You sort of have to set it up based on the volume you need. Doing your own periodization takes a bit to get used to with FT. I think Scott has had only one example of one person saying on Tier 1 straight through. I think for most though you would be doing yourself a disservice by sticking to just one tier. I'd start at 1 and move up. If you start feeling a little overwhelmed, but you don't think you need a cruise, back down a bit. If you are way beat up. Cruise. Just one of those things you have to do, try, and listen to your body.

As far as setting the PRs and the extra work before hand. I've never personally had an issue. There have been a few times I've just been spent before a certain MR and just do not preform. but you kinda of know. If this is a concern for you, the best way I can tell you to combat it, is to program your days. For tier 2. Instead of doing two chest pressing lifts, do a pressing and an isolation. Less stress on your shoulders and triceps. Same for shoulders. I understand you may have some trouble with this, since you are limited on chest iso movements. I would be surprised however if you found this to be a serious problem.

4. Just out of curiosity, why is Biceps/forearms on lower MR day?

I believe this is a way to get increased frequency for that muscle group. hit directly twice a week, indirectly twice a week. Scott stated earlier that he did not do triceps this way to do most people getting elbow issues from so much frequency.

5. Am I correct in thinking/seeing that the 3-day variation is almost exactly the same volume for upper loading, upper pump sets, and upper muscle rounds …so the only difference is fewer MRs for lower?

I think Scott says that that is specifically for someone looking to focus on Upper. But you are correct. I'm sure if you wanted to add more lower MR you would look at probably the turbo format for Lower MR and adjust similarly.

6. Should we be tracking the stretches for progression as well? If so I would imagine just the extreme stretches. Or should we just go at them and keep a mental note? Since I imagine these will vary considerably less (i.e. once I find a good extreme pec stretch I don’t imagine I’d change it nearly as often as chest exercises).

Purely instinctual. I mean if you want to keep notes you can, but no need to track progression. Just get an idea of what feels good when and make a mental note.

7. Any need to ever go to Turbo? It seems like there is far more variability between Tiers I, II, and III than there is between the basic and turbo version. Tier 1 basic vs turbo is noticeably different due to more volume in turbo but tiers 2 and 3 are identical volumes and even many of the muscle groups (biceps, triceps, abs) have identical frequencies too so really we’re looking at such a small difference in the grand scheme of the FT system it seems insignificant. To make things less complicated could one just stick to the basic and vary the tiers as necessary for essentially the same results?

You go turbo if you grow best that way!! I agree that there is more variability between the tiers in basics over turbo, but they are FAR FAR from being the same. What they look like on paper is nothing what they are in the gym. It's not insignificant. I ran two blasts of turbo, one was great, and the 2nd one chewed me up. It's a LOT harder (for me). You don't get nearly as sore doing turbo do to the decreased volume, but the frequency really does a number on you. I would agree its at least best to start on basic and see if that works well for you.

8. Lastly, can I change exercise order if there are particular lifts I want to go up the most? For example I have a barbell bench goal and a barbell shoulder press goal. Can my (A) loading day have chest before delts (say BB Bench then DB Shoulder press) and (B) loading day have delts before chest (say BB Shoulder Press then Incline DB Bench)?

I'm not Scott, but I don't see why not. I believe he has said in the past you can move things around as you please!

Hope this helps!!

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Pumped,

First note here for anyone reading: Much of these kinds of questions become self-evident after doing the program, even for just a week or so.

Hey, figured I'd post this here instead of starting a new thread. I'm setting up my FT routine now for when I eventually start and have quite a few questions, but most of which I think could be answered in a sentence or two


1. How do you know exactly how to go about the recommended multiple sets e.g. if it says 3 sets for back would that necessarily be A,B,A….or A,B,C? Is it another “depends on the individual and what needs work” thing?

This is intentionally left up to you so you can train "instinctively" according to what your physique needs, how you feel that day, ache's n' pains, etc.

2. When we zig-zag does it have to be compound + isolation? Almost all chest fly variations hurt my pec after a few weeks of loading due to a previous injury. I’m considering using something like a DB Twist & Press since it’s a lighter variation even though it’s certainly not an isolation.

You can do whatever you like. The purpose of isolation exercises are to ensure the target muscle is the weak link and targeted over accessory muscles, especially as fatigue ensues, set x set. You might try a hex press (Press with DB's held together during entire ROM) instead of a fly.

(I'd be very careful with that injury and try to get that figure out. Sounds like it could be a recurring tendinitis leading towards tendinosis. )

3. Should one increase volume tier throughout a blast generally or just when it’s too easy? I.e. is it typical to ever just stick with tier 1 or tier 2 or tier 3 all the way through? We repeat the same workouts so rarely I would want to make sure there is progression and if we add volume it will be hard to tell. For example if the first time I did a “B” workout I 1 set of chest but then the next I’ve gone up a tier so now it’s 2-3 sets of chest then any subsequent shoulder and tricep work will be skewed and it may seem like they didn’t progress or even regressed because those muscle groups were more fatigued from the extra chest sets this time.

This shouldn't be an issue in the overall scheme of things. (You are overanalyzing here a wee bit, I think.) You can use the first compound loading set to gauge progress, too, even though you're not going to failure.

Change Tiers as recovery permits, which could be depending upon a host of things.

Recover long enough between loading sets such that fatigue from the previously trained muscle group is not a great issue.

4. Just out of curiosity, why is Biceps/forearms on lower MR day?

To distribute workload over Day 3 and 4, mainly. (Training triceps on that day would more likely to cause overuse issues for most folks, d/t the pressing that occurs on Day 4. Forearms can handle a beating pretty good, too and go well with biceps.)

5. Am I correct in thinking/seeing that the 3-day variation is almost exactly the same volume for upper loading, upper pump sets, and upper muscle rounds …so the only difference is fewer MRs for lower?

Yes, indeed. It says this on page 126 of the book.

6. Should we be tracking the stretches for progression as well? If so I would imagine just the extreme stretches. Or should we just go at them and keep a mental note? Since I imagine these will vary considerably less (i.e. once I find a good extreme pec stretch I don’t imagine I’d change it nearly as often as chest exercises).

No need to track the stretches, IMO.

From the section on extreme stretches: "Progressively increase the external load only up to the point where you still feel the loading, stretch and metabolic accumulation in the muscle belly, not the tendons and/or joints."

7. Any need to ever go to Turbo? It seems like there is far more variability between Tiers I, II, and III than there is between the basic and turbo version. Tier 1 basic vs turbo is noticeably different due to more volume in turbo but tiers 2 and 3 are identical volumes and even many of the muscle groups (biceps, triceps, abs) have identical frequencies too so really we’re looking at such a small difference in the grand scheme of the FT system it seems insignificant. To make things less complicated could one just stick to the basic and vary the tiers as necessary for essentially the same results?

There may be a "need" if you find that greater frequency works to your advantage.

8. Lastly, can I change exercise order if there are particular lifts I want to go up the most? For example I have a barbell bench goal and a barbell shoulder press goal. Can my (A) loading day have chest before delts (say BB Bench then DB Shoulder press) and (B) loading day have delts before chest (say BB Shoulder Press then Incline DB Bench)?

Entirely up to you, IMO.

I'd probably not have an incline Bench and an Overhead Press on the say day, though if you can arranges it. (A decline press might be a better choice on the day you do an BB shoulder press first.)

I know that's a lot, thanks in advance!

Sure!

-S

[Altamir]

Thanks for the replies

Altamir:

1. I meant loading but yea that is what I thought. With MRs…man there is so much variability! Lol I’m having trouble even coming up with that many exercises I truly feel are worthwhile. If someone is doing Tier 3 then between 3 weeks of loading, pump and MR exercises you’re looking at 16-20+ exercises! I guess I still have the mentality of Dante from DC with just focusing on a few core exercises but I understand that’s what the loading days are for.

No problem!! Yeah it is a lot. The program can certainly one of those things that if you spend to long thinking about you'll never ever get started. If you would like to limit the lifts you are using, but still want to add some variety, try adding iso holds, or negatives. I've just started to doing this for my MR and have been very happy so far. You can also attack the same lift from both ends of the MR scale. Meaning. One week you could do cable rows and try and fail on the 4th cluster (x4/x4/x4/x2/drop weight/x4/x4) and then maybe 2 weeks after, do cable rows and fail on the last cluster (x4/x4/x4/x4/x4/x3) Same lift, different weight, different progression. Possibilities are nearly endless Best part about this program is that is has plenty of structure to keep you guided forward, but endless freedom to make it work for you!

2. Unfortunately since I injured my pec it seems any fly variation done over a significant period or with significant intensity hurts the area (where the right pec inserts into the shoulder area…I think it’s my pec minor). All dumbbell presses seem fine. DB Twist & Press used to cause a little irritation but has seemed fine recently. Flat barbell I do fine with as long as it’s more of a closer grip. Incline barbell I haven’t done in about 2 years as that’s what caused the issue. Incline smith is OK though so my first 3 loading exercises will probably be BB Bench, Incline Smith and Incline DB bench. I’d like to keep those going as long as possible.

I have an long lasting nagging shoulder issue, and it took me a little bit to tune in with FT to find exactly what I could make work and what I could not. Just get into the program, listen to your body, use your head, and work through it. You'll get it

3. OK, I definitely think increasing volume over time is important, though I’d be fine with keeping it the same for a given blast. But I will try to increase it throughout the blast. I was surprised to see that in some of Scott’s examples they back off in volume during the blast. I know Skip used to do generally increasing volume throughout 6 weeks then take off……I was wondering why Scott would decrease volume within a blast when that would take away from the progression. I suppose the reasoning is that you generally want it increasing but if you need to back off due to fatigue then it’s better to do so in order to help get the blast to 6 weeks as opposed to stopping early?

I did this during two blasts. and its basically exactly what you are talking about. Instead of the 6 weeks being one long wave of increasing volume. It sort of turns into two little 3 week mini waves. I did 1/2/2/1/2/3 both times. Basically by week three mentally I felt good, no joint problems, but I was really concerned about how sore I was overall. I think the first time I had chest DOMs almost 24/7 and then second time Back DOMs almost 24/7. Just didn't seem wise to keep pushing forward when I was so sore.

As for the 2nd part, I would expect the extra volume to hurt my subsequent lifts but I guess I just won’t worry about it and push as hard as I can

As Scott said above just get into the program and you'll sort of figure out where you land. You can generally look at the week as a whole and see if you are progressing or not. For example this first week blast for myself. Loading sets for chest I actually dropped a rep. But for upper muscle rounds I crushed the set, and my chest pump sets were EXTREMELY hard and left my chest very very sore (done the day before loading). I'm not going to sweat it. If across the board everything went down. Then I would be worried or know that adjustments needed to be made.

7. Hm, OK if you say so lol. With volume being equated for I would wonder how much of a difference results were but yea something to experiment with. I guess going to turbo would in theory be small jump as opposed to a big jump between tiers. So for example difficulty would increase with basic tier 1 < turbo tier 1 < basic tier 2 < turbo tier 2 < basic tier 3 < turbo tier 3…so if you wanted to increase things a bit without going up a full tier.

That's pretty much how I rank the difficulty personally myself. So you can mix them up as much as you want. The frequency is really really sneaky though. That's all I can say. I went from thinking turbo was the greatest thing ever and I was making the best gains ever, to a few weeks later having shoulder, hip, and forearm problems and my gains grinding to a halt.

[Altamir]

In the section about MRs it says one can keep it very random and fresh or one can keep a lift in for a while and hammer at it until they get very strong at it and it shows in their physique.

I have always been of the opinion that getting brutally strong at an exercise is the best way to see muscle growth in that area. I am toying around with the idea of making the MR exercises the same exercises or similar to the loading exercises of the previous week..ergo you hit that same exercise once every 1.5 weeks on average instead of once every 3 weeks, but you're hitting it in different ways (higher rep rest-pause vs heavy loading).

E.g. if I do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, db shoulder press for loading exercises of the first week then in the MR workout of the 2nd week (1.5 weeks later) I would do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, smith shoulder press (because DB pressing wouldn't be good for MRs). Again different way to go at it but allows me to get even stronger on those core exercises. Additionally since we have 3-6 different loading exercises per muscle group this still provides quite a bit of variability especially when you consider the varying exercises of the pump sets.

What do you guys think? I like it but I don't want to do something clearly off from the program's intentions.

I like it a lot, personally and I started doing something very similar. As long as you can keep progressing this way, and it works for you, do it (also it doesn't hurt!). When I initially started I had a huge boost to all my shoulder presses. I think at the time I was only rotating 4 lifts for MRs and 3 of those were also the same lifts as loading. I saw a very big and fast progression for a few months. Then my shoulders got a little burnt out (this is half my own fault, over aggressive stretching), progress stalled. I hit a cruise, and I added a little more variety and everything started moving forward again, slow but surely.

[Scott Stevenson]

In the section about MRs it says one can keep it very random and fresh or one can keep a lift in for a while and hammer at it until they get very strong at it and it shows in their physique.

I have always been of the opinion that getting brutally strong at an exercise is the best way to see muscle growth in that area. I am toying around with the idea of making the MR exercises the same exercises or similar to the loading exercises of the previous week..ergo you hit that same exercise once every 1.5 weeks on average instead of once every 3 weeks, but you're hitting it in different ways (higher rep rest-pause vs heavy loading).

E.g. if I do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, db shoulder press for loading exercises of the first week then in the MR workout of the 2nd week (1.5 weeks later) I would do incline bench, machine row, pulldowns, smith shoulder press (because DB pressing wouldn't be good for MRs). Again different way to go at it but allows me to get even stronger on those core exercises. Additionally since we have 3-6 different loading exercises per muscle group this still provides quite a bit of variability especially when you consider the varying exercises of the pump sets.

What do you guys think? I like it but I don't want to do something clearly off from the program's intentions.

The program has a mind of it's own. Don't double cross it or you will regret it...

As you said, gross variety as well as sticking with the same exercises will both work and there is rationale to doing to both way. Most important is what suits the person - and for you it seems that sticking with the same exercises and pounding away at them is the way to go, at least as an initial strategy.

-S