FT Questions....

[Arnoldgenes]

What is arbitrary about it (other than perhaps that each individual picks the exercises to be used)?...

Yes sir, that is what I was referring to along with the fact that the isolation exercises aren't used as a barometer to cycle exercises due to their lack of progress such as the compounds would be.

Have you read the full section in the book on Loading sets (~p.88), including the zig-zagging examples?...

Yes sir, I read it over and over which is what led me to post and further clarify my understanding. I took notes and even found two minor typo's in your definition of "Zig-Zagging" on particularly pg88 which I was trying to find a way to bring to your attention so this is ironic. They are bolded here in parenthesis:
(pg88 States - Exercise Selection (ZIG-ZAGGING): Use Primary Compound Free weight exercises (Barbells, dumbbells and plate-loaded machines) or your specifc preferences for you “go to” mass building)

Maybe you are referring to when to when one would drop a given exercise or a particular rotation d/t lack of progression?...

Yes sir, this is exactly what I am referring to.

I try to, whenever possible, "seek first to understand and then to criticize" or in your case propose an alternative.

So you're saying you'd do the same exercise (not rotate among and A, B and C exercise or A, B and C grouping of exercises), until one stalls and can't progress. (BTW, the exercises for Pump sets and MR's are not at all arbitrary.)

So, if I follow you (I'm not sure *I* understand here), you're proposing a week by week progression that could look like this (say for thighs):

Week 1: Squats x (# sets depending on volume tier?... with perhaps a different rest interval?)
Week 2: Squats as above
Week 3: Squats as above
Week 4: Squats (fail to progress by 1 reps or 5lb on any of the sets?... What if one set progresses and another does not?...)
Week 5: Change to Leg Press as above
Week 6: Leg Press as above
Etc. until there is a failure to progress on Leg press (cruising at some point along the way, of course, too.)

Or

As above, but using only compound exercise and a A, B, C rotation (Squats, Leg Press, HS Squat machine) such as with DC:

Week 1: Squats
Week 2: L. Press
Week 3: HS Squat machine
Week 4: Squats
Etc?...

Just want to see what you are proposing as well as what you find to be arbitrary in FT.

Yes sir, exactly the first example you wrote out.
Week 1: Squats x (# sets depending on volume tier?... with perhaps a different rest interval?) yes sir, based on vol tier and 2min rest
Week 2: Squats as above
Week 3: Squats as above
Week 4: Squats (fail to progress by 1 reps or 5lb on any of the sets?... What if one set progresses and another does not?...)If one fails you lose it to the rotation
Week 5: Change to Leg Press as above
Week 6: Leg Press as above
Etc. until there is a failure to progress on Leg press (cruising at some point along the way, of course, too.)yes sir, the same outlines for cruise apply

As far as the "science" of zig-zagging isolation sets, I think i touch on some of these in the book (and certainly here on the board), we have:

• You can vary order of exercises (Variety / Variation is a Principle of Training)
• You can pre-fatigue with isolation exercises to target lagging muscle groups and change the relative stress incurred during the compound muscle groups.
• Esp. for legs and even back (exercises chosen accordingly), the isolation exercises prevent from from "gassing out" on the compound movements.
• Using 2 or three movements (compound plus isolations) adds variety to training in general (variety of training) vs. Compound movements alone
• Isolation movements are less taxing to the CNS (and indirectly ANS, endocrine and immune systems) and thus allow you to train with more volume (shift relative load to the Sk. muscle vs. other organ systems) and take advantage of dose response of volume vs.muscle growth.
• One can vary the order of exercises when Zig-zagging upon reaching a plateau in gains and still hold on to (keep in the rotation) exercises that work very well for a person. This is helpful, too, when training with limited training option (i.e., there are really only 3 good compound exercises for a given muscle group).

BTW, it's really only the compound exercises that I suggest folks focus on (esp. for legs) when assessing when to progress is stalling and it's time to drop an exercise rotation or change exercise order. This is also because sometimes "shit happens" and one can't get on to an isolation exercise machine when zig zagging and has to improvise on that particular day. (The priority is on holding down the compound exercise machine / rack / bench. I address ways to avoid this a few times here on the board, like how one could couple rack deads with rack chins, smith squats with smith sissy hack squats and DB ham curls, etc.)

-S

Thank you for this in depth clarification. I guess I didn't understand the place of isolation super-setting with compounds on the "load" days. I see what you're aiming to achieve with this method now due to this clarification. Pg 94 actually shows me exactly what I was confused about with the tier 3 example. I will try it this way, I started with straight sets and compounds only.