FT Questions....

[thethinker48]

That's still not a study. It's a new story that's poorly referenced and copied / reposted widely.

As far as I can tell, this is the original study that was published:

http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fullt...16)00019-9

(My thoughts on fasting for 1-3 days at the beginning of a blast are still the same and found in [your] answers to the question about how this would impact training... )


And?....


I still don't see how this relates directly to this news story / study.

Are you looking for a reason to fast that will offset / justify your concern with muscle loss?

-Scott

P.S. I'm hoping of course you're just joking about loving FT and your ability to train yourself "into rhabdo." I get the sense here you're deflecting with humor a bit...

I am joking about the rhabdo thing. I'm the guy who runs Tier 1 with every other day training, and it took me many blasts to figure out that it was the best way for me to train and properly recover.

I had a bunch of thoughts in my head with a bunch of sources and a very poor way of covering them as a question [emoji846]

The idea of fasting during a cruise meant a restoration of appetite and giving your digestive tract a break. John Meadows mentioned this in an interview ; we see many many bodybuilders over the years develop some form of gastrointestinal issue like colitis or sheer malabsorption from pounding calories day in and day out. Maybe a 1 day a week fast for the 2 weeks we cruise can help in this regard? But the caloric deficit it creates can be pretty substantial for one trying to grow bigger, and/or hold on to newly acquired muscle.

Now a 72 hour fast is probably not a great idea now that I think about what you mentioned earlier. And fasting overall from a performance perspective (because we are still recovering from the stress accumulated over weeks) seems horrible vs just lowering calories but consuming enough protein to prevent breakdown, and try to hold onto tissue (which is mentioned in the ebook).

Anyway, I think I've answered quite a bit of my own question by thinking it through (which is what u want all of us doing anyway [emoji39] ).

Sorry for the badly put together question.

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[Scott Stevenson]

I am joking about the rhabdo thing. I'm the guy who runs Tier 1 with every other day training, and it took me many blasts to figure out that it was the best way for me to train and properly recover.

I had a bunch of thoughts in my head with a bunch of sources and a very poor way of covering them as a question [emoji846]

The idea of fasting during a cruise meant a restoration of appetite and giving your digestive tract a break. John Meadows mentioned this in an interview ; we see many many bodybuilders over the years develop some form of gastrointestinal issue like colitis or sheer malabsorption from pounding calories day in and day out. Maybe a 1 day a week fast for the 2 weeks we cruise can help in this regard? But the caloric deficit it creates can be pretty substantial for one trying to grow bigger, and/or hold on to newly acquired muscle.

Now a 72 hour fast is probably not a great idea now that I think about what you mentioned earlier. And fasting overall from a performance perspective (because we are still recovering from the stress accumulated over weeks) seems horrible vs just lowering calories but consuming enough protein to prevent breakdown, and try to hold onto tissue (which is mentioned in the ebook).

Anyway, I think I've answered quite a bit of my own question by thinking it through (which is what u want all of us doing anyway [emoji39] ).

Sorry for the badly put together question.

No worries at all, man. We got you thinking a bit more deeply about this, which is - you're right - one of my main goals here in helping folks.

So, that study, while cool, isn't directly applicable here (to you) I don't think. (BTW, here's the actual study - the link I posted above was for a correction to the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...601547.pdf )

There is something to say though for the idea that, perhaps in someone who's been pushing food and also getting sick frequently, in bringing the food back down or even fasting. I learned this the hard way years ago in that when I was off-season and I got sick, I'd try to keep food intake high and would stay sick (for weeks and weeks on a few occasions). When I'd finally give in and just eat according to appetite (which was very little), I'd typically be better in a matter of days.


-------

John talks about this approach - which he's using with clients nowadays in particular to help with fat loss when dieting - in the lectures from the Arnold weekend he's put up on his site. You could give it just a half day of fasting on a non-training day in the off-season and see how this helps.

The nutrient timing approach - low carbs on non-training days / away from workouts - helps quite a bit with appetite I've found. The desire for carbohydrate comes back and when you get into a circadian rhythm of eating more peri-workout, folks can entrain themselves into eating a good bit of food during this period (and grow this way).

-S

[thethinker48]

Hey Scott and everyone else, What are your guys's preferred source of post workout carbs? (Don't say sorbet lol !)

I'm doing 8 tablespoons of honey with 16 ounces of grape juice, some sea salt and whey isolate post workout (no intra drink).

P.S: pls delete if this is a wrong place to post this, I'll repost somewhere else, I just like this thread as a gold mine of accumulating knowledge.

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[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Scott and everyone else, What are your guys's preferred source of post workout carbs? (Don't say sorbet lol !)

I'm doing 8 tablespoons of honey with 16 ounces of grape juice, some sea salt and whey isolate post workout (no intra drink).

P.S: pls delete if this is a wrong place to post this, I'll repost somewhere else, I just like this thread as a gold mine of accumulating knowledge.

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Why did you choose to use honey in such a large amount?...

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tom...Review.pdf

-S

[thethinker48]

Why did you choose to use honey in such a large amount?...

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tom...Review.pdf

-S

It just goes down easier; very easy way to get 120 grams of carbs. But not quite so good for your digestion as I'm reading up on now. Lots of antimicrobial properties.

That link you added is a study I assume; link seems to be broken.

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[Scott Stevenson]

It just goes down easier; very easy way to get 120 grams of carbs. But not quite so good for your digestion as I'm reading up on now. Lots of antimicrobial properties.

That link you added is a study I assume; link seems to be broken.

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Hmmm... The link works for me.

It gives you a breakdown of the fructose and glucose content of various honeys (mainly of Australian origin - best I've found so far) showing a large (~50%) fructose content.

That may not be an issue whatsoever, but as far as rapid restoration of glycogen, insulin "spiking" etc., fructose isn't the best choice.

As far as health, fructose per se really isn't entirely the demon we've made it out be - here's an interesting article:

1. White JS. Challenging the fructose hypothesis: new perspectives on fructose consumption and metabolism. Advances in nutrition (Bethesda, Md). 2013;4(2):246-256.

-S

[Stewilliams]

Would you advise against supersetting two exercises for a pump set even if there is only one failure point?

For example I have underdeveloped triceps and hamstrings and am weak on close grip bench press and RDL's (in comparison to my standard bench and deadlift).

So for a hamstring pump set I did a high rep set of RdL's shy of failure before hopping onto a leg curl and doing a high rep set to failure utilising partial reps etc before returning back to RDL for ham stretch.

For Triceps I did something similar using close grip bench and rope cable extensions. Benefit is that I am accumulating volume on exercises I am bio-mechanically and physically (for lack of a better word) weak at. But I then utilise an exercise where I can really focus on perfect execution and use partials etc to reach mechanical failure.

Is this strategy likely too much or could it have some merit as a pump set method? I am currently training turbo version tier 1 and would be more hesitant to use this technique with a higher volume tier.

[Scott Stevenson]

Would you advise against supersetting two exercises for a pump set even if there is only one failure point?

For example I have underdeveloped triceps and hamstrings and am weak on close grip bench press and RDL's (in comparison to my standard bench and deadlift).

So for a hamstring pump set I did a high rep set of RdL's shy of failure before hopping onto a leg curl and doing a high rep set to failure utilising partial reps etc before returning back to RDL for ham stretch.

For Triceps I did something similar using close grip bench and rope cable extensions. Benefit is that I am accumulating volume on exercises I am bio-mechanically and physically (for lack of a better word) weak at. But I then utilise an exercise where I can really focus on perfect execution and use partials etc to reach mechanical failure.

Is this strategy likely too much or could it have some merit as a pump set method? I am currently training turbo version tier 1 and would be more hesitant to use this technique with a higher volume tier.

Sure, you could try that, but you seem to be seeking out something other than purpose of the pump sets strategy, which is metabolic stress:

It sounds like you want more volume on those exercises which you're weak during so you can increase strength on those lifts - high rep sets aren't the best way to do that. (Using them more so during Loading sets and MR's would be the way to go.) You didn't say what your rep range was for the pre-fatiguing exercise, so I'm just assuming here...

Also, it sounds like you have a hard time using RDL's and CGBP's to train the hams and triceps (from your comment about being able to "really focus" during the isolation exercises), so you might ask yourself why that is the case.

So, I'd ask what the purpose here is - more strength on those exercises, per se, or making those muscles grow - in the context of reps range of the different Set Types and what that means as far as specificity of training (strength vs. metabolic stress induced hypertrophy and muscular endurance)...

It could be that those exercises (RDL and CGBP) are not good mass builders for you due to your personal biomechanics, activation tendencies, etc. OTOH, if you're trying to improve bench press and deadlift strength, I think there are better strategies.

-S

[Stewilliams]

Sure, you could try that, but you seem to be seeking out something other than purpose of the pump sets strategy, which is metabolic stress:

It sounds like you want more volume on those exercises which you're weak during so you can increase strength on those lifts - high rep sets aren't the best way to do that. (Using them more so during Loading sets and MR's would be the way to go.) You didn't say what your rep range was for the pre-fatiguing exercise, so I'm just assuming here...

Also, it sounds like you have a hard time using RDL's and CGBP's to train the hams and triceps (from your comment about being able to "really focus" during the isolation exercises), so you might ask yourself why that is the case.

So, I'd ask what the purpose here is - more strength on those exercises, per se, or making those muscles grow - in the context of reps range of the different Set Types and what that means as far as specificity of training (strength vs. metabolic stress induced hypertrophy and muscular endurance)...

It could be that those exercises (RDL and CGBP) are not good mass builders for you due to your personal biomechanics, activation tendencies, etc. OTOH, if you're trying to improve bench press and deadlift strength, I think there are better strategies.

-S

Thanks for the reply Scott!

The overall goal of the set is to maximise metabolic stress which is why I move on to the isolation exercise as fatigue begins to set in. I keep the eccentric as slow and controlled as possible so as to keep tension on target muscle. Rep range for the close grip bench press was 15 reps, could have performed 18-20 before form slipped but didn't want pushdowns to be a throw away exercise. RDL's I got 12 before speed dropped so moved onto leg curls. Both exercises were performed with just one plate a side.

I do struggle to properly execute both exercises under heavier loads which is why I tried this strategy so as to "practice" the movement under lighter loads. I find using them in the pump sets I'm able to reinforce better form and mind muscle connection, but the isolation exercises lend themselves better to maximising metabolic stress (at this moment in time).

I have reinforced a poor close grip bench press by being quite a wide bench presser in the past which has definitely contributed to lagging triceps in comparison to anterior deltoid and pecs. I tore part of my biceps femoris on a SLDL in the past so have neglected RDL's since (probably out of subconscious fear). Interestingly though I am not a particularly weak deadlifter (230kg for 6) or bench presser (157.5kg max). I just need to improve my mechanics and mind muscle connection of CGBP and RDL's.

[patjohnhyde]

Hi Scott,

What do you think of mechanical dropsets for the pump set portion of FT?

For example for chest I’ve been doing

Db fly into DB hex press into DB press, no rest in between, aiming for 10 reps each exercise to total 30 reps

Does this fit the bill of what pump sets are supposed to be in FT ?

I’ve previously been doing 5’s in the hole, 21’s etc. But just to try something different and get a nice pump I’ve heen doing the mechanical dropsets and they’re a lot of fun

Thanks !