FT Questions....

[Scott Stevenson]

Hi guys,

Before my question here's a quick recap of the situation :

I just finished a 19th weeks prep for three BB shows 4 weeks ago.

I am currently in the reverse diet phase. During the cutting process I wasn't doing FT but a more typical split.

Now I'm back at it (I was looking forward to it ).

At the end of the prep I was on 1 300 cals / day.

Now on training days I'm around 2 300 cals (310 C / 150 P / 45 F) and I gained just around 3.5 / 4 lbs.

The FT program has gave my metabolism a HHHUUUGGGE boost, so big that it's very hard to stay on my planned macros (I was planning on adding 20 / 30g carbs per week).

I'm always hungry, don't know how to explain, it's like my body's racing
This period is almost harder than prep.

Here's my question (finally ) :

If the program has speed up my metabolism, should I use this as an opportunity to shovel a maximum of food / calories and hope to put on muscle, regardless the slow calories upgrade that I planned ?

Or should I restrain myself and stick to the plan?

Thanks

I would incremental add kcal on the training days (as you have been) and see if that gives you positive gains in size (minimal in fat).

Going slow here is a good idea in general, as you're more likely to gain fat in a dieted down state. The counter to this, of course, is training and that your increased caloric expenditure is due to the training itself speaks strongly to the notion of nutrient timing around the post-workout recovery period.

(Also, if you just came off all your fat burners or whatever might have cause an reduction in appetite, this can explain some of why you're so hungry.)

-S

[marcheoucreve]

I would incremental add kcal on the training days (as you have been) and see if that gives you positive gains in size (minimal in fat).

Going slow here is a good idea in general, as you're more likely to gain fat in a dieted down state. The counter to this, of course, is training and that your increased caloric expenditure is due to the training itself speaks strongly to the notion of nutrient timing around the post-workout recovery period.

(Also, if you just came off all your fat burners or whatever might have cause an reduction in appetite, this can explain some of why you're so hungry.)

-S

Thanks for your response Doc!

I will take your advice and listen to my body needs and increase cals at the post workout window.

At the starting point of the reverse diet, I was keeping my cals lower on non training days, like it was during my cutting phase.

But since I moved to the FT program, I noticed that is during my "rest days" that my hunger is through the roof.

Since I train at night, the next morning I'm already able to eat an elephant.

Like you say in the book, for the people who train at night : "carbs in breasfast as needed".

I will implement that.

In fact, I want to try keeping the same macros during training / non training days (just removed the intra traning drink - currently 40g carb) and see how it goes.

And no, there wasn't any fat burners involved during the prep.

[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks for your response Doc!

I will take your advice and listen to my body needs and increase cals at the post workout window.

At the starting point of the reverse diet, I was keeping my cals lower on non training days, like it was during my cutting phase.

But since I moved to the FT program, I noticed that is during my "rest days" that my hunger is through the roof.

Since I train at night, the next morning I'm already able to eat an elephant.

Like you say in the book, for the people who train at night : "carbs in breasfast as needed".

I will implement that.

In fact, I want to try keeping the same macros during training / non training days (just removed the intra traning drink - currently 40g carb) and see how it goes.

And no, there wasn't any fat burners involved during the prep.

The bolded would not be my general suggestion whatsoever. (I'd go just opposite of that - increasing the intra and adding kcal to the training day.) However, there is something to say for trial and error.

-S

[Kabhattacharya]

Guys,

Hope everyone is doing well. I need some help....

I've just come off a very restful 5 days away from the gym eager to start my third blast - while adjusting the program to account for my knee troubles (more about that on my thread). The third blast started amazing - my upper loading and lower pump workout this past Sunday couldn't have gone better! Even with slight form modifications to make movements stricter weights were up reps were strong and overall it was one of those workouts that makes you eager to wake up again at 5 am and hit the iron.

So today was my mid week MR workout (I follow a tier II family man plan - I think that's what the e-book refers to it as). And the MRs could not have been worse - this is a trend I've been noticing - even towards the end of my second blast my MR workouts were the first ones to go pits.

So during my time off I gave it a deep thought and figured my movements during MRs had become very poor in terms of form and there was too much momentum - so why not cut the weight back - really focus on tightening the form and rebuilding my strength levels anew. Not a bad idea right?

Horrible - I spent an hour in the gym and just managed to get through 3 MRs today before I called it quits. The movements just didn't feel right - there was this perpetual fatigue hanging over me and normally during the first two or three cluster sets instead of feeling light but challenging it just felt like I was grinding out reps (note - this was with a lower load than my last blast). My joints were sore, I was perpetually out of breath - just went to hell.

I'm at a loss now - I don't know what to do. MRs are a crucial part of the program I can't ditch them and neither can I go in three times a week and do loading sets only - I'd be heading for snap city if I did that. So I'm not sure what to do. Lately getting through 6 cluster sets just seems near impossible so I've been conceptualizing alternatives to hit the 24 rep mark (note I am aware this is not strictly FT). Doing them DC style rest pause stopping a rep or two shy of failure on the first and second RP set. Doing only 4 clusters with a working weight and stripping that back for the 5th and 6th cluster sets. I'm not trying to get other members to approve my suggestions before I head back to the gym - I'm just brainstorming here because I want to push through this blast and get the results I've been getting from my last 2 blasts - but given the conundrum of late I'm trying to find work arounds.

Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Joshua

[Altamir]

Hey Joshua,

I'm sure others will have their opinion, but going back and checking out your log. You blasted for 7 weeks (too long), and took 5 days off the gym (too short). That's not a prescribed cruise (see page 82 in the book), and I'm guessing that's why you feel like dirt. (also unsure if your food / cardio / supplementation has changed).

But twice I've short changed myself on cruises and paid for it the following blast.

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Joshua,

I'm sure others will have their opinion, but going back and checking out your log. You blasted for 7 weeks (too long), and took 5 days off the gym (too short). That's not not a prescribed cruise (see page 82 in the book), and I'm guessing that's why you feel like dirt. (also unsure if your food / cardio / supplementation has changed).

But twice I've short changed myself on cruises and paid for it the following blast.

Detective Altamir has done a very nice job here. (Thank you from me. )

The clearest option is to take time off (NO TRAINING) until you feel ready and start back at Tier I.

You sounds like you're actually deep into overreaching and bordering on overtraining here. This could be possible if you tried to string together two blasts that were both too long, with too much volume, and without cruises that were long enough. This could be basically 5+mo. of training with the majority of that time approaching an overreached state.

If you are not making progress and now regressing in the gym (regardless of Set Type) and you would expect to (diet is on point, you're not pre-contest, etc.), then this fits with the main criterion for overtraining. If you don't remedy this, it can mean needing a LONG time off - weeks and weeks, if not months...

I bet if you were to rest and eat up for literally 10-14 days (no training) you would come back and impress yourself with your lifts in the gym. If you were to take that time off and limits your kcal b/c of a fear of gaining fat and try to do some other form of high intensity exercise, you would probably not rebound or come out of this state very well at all (if at all).

I'm hitting you with the diabolical here b/c you sound a bit panicked and tempted to keep pushing. Also, since you weren't quite even sure what program you were following ("I think that's what the e-book refers to it as"), I'm guessing you might benefit from taking a good look at what the e-book says. (Just run a "Find" in the .pdf file for the word "overtraining" and you'll see how important this concept is to me.)

-S

[Kabhattacharya]

Hi Alt / Dr. S

Thanks for your advice. I will follow it to the T. 10 days off - eat clean but eat big and plenty of sleep - which shouldn't be a problem given I don't have to wake up for 5 am gym sessions during the week anymore. Following which it'll be on to blast number 3!

Just got a new slow cooker day before yesterday - wife made some amazing barbecue pulled pork - which I stuffed into 3 small whole wheat pita breads and along with a big salad (fresh cucumbers, tomatoes, and carrots) made my meal for the day. I think I may even give up on my intermittent fasting for this period and add in a light breakfast - 2 rotis (thin Indian flat bread) with 2 whole eggs and a scoop of whey in water along with my multis to get the day started. I've also become a fan of unrefined brown rice stir fried with tomato paste and ketchup some chili powder and whole eggs for breakfast.

I'm not too worried about the fat thing - I'm Indian and if you've seen the latest from history channel - it seems that the extreme famines in the 1800's brought on by colonialism (farmers forced to grow cash crops like jute and indigo and disallowed from growing food crops) caused an El Niño effect stimulating extra fat storage around the waist (what is colloquially referred to here as the pregnant man look - I.E. Skinny Indian dudes with a pregnant looking gut) - anywho my point is I've made my peace with not having visible abs as long as I have shoulders that dwarf them, forearms like pythons, and a back like a barn door :-)

Thanks for your quick response again guys - I cannot emphasize enough how important the support of all the members here has been - at least for me personally it has kept me from program hopping and kept on the straight and narrow with regard to FT.

Ok so game of thrones premieres here 2 days after its US premiere which means it's on tonight - time to go put the home theatre system to work!

Best,
Joshua

[phoebeusfenix]

Detective Altamir has done a very nice job here. (Thank you from me. )

The clearest option is to take time off (NO TRAINING) until you feel ready and start back at Tier I.

You sounds like you're actually deep into overreaching and bordering on overtraining here. This could be possible if you tried to string together two blasts that were both too long, with too much volume, and without cruises that were long enough. This could be basically 5+mo. of training with the majority of that time approaching an overreached state.

If you are not making progress and now regressing in the gym (regardless of Set Type) and you would expect to (diet is on point, you're not pre-contest, etc.), then this fits with the main criterion for overtraining. If you don't remedy this, it can mean needing a LONG time off - weeks and weeks, if not months...

I bet if you were to rest and eat up for literally 10-14 days (no training) you would come back and impress yourself with your lifts in the gym. If you were to take that time off and limits your kcal b/c of a fear of gaining fat and try to do some other form of high intensity exercise, you would probably not rebound or come out of this state very well at all (if at all).

I'm hitting you with the diabolical here b/c you sound a bit panicked and tempted to keep pushing. Also, since you weren't quite even sure what program you were following ("I think that's what the e-book refers to it as"), I'm guessing you might benefit from taking a good look at what the e-book says. (Just run a "Find" in the .pdf file for the word "overtraining" and you'll see how important this concept is to me.)

-S

This post couldn't have come at a better time. I don't know why but I get "scared," of taking a break at times - this definitely reinforces the importance of it.



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[robc1985]

I've read the book numerous times but I'm still a little confused with the zig-zagging process.

Ie I am on tier 1 and did upper load today thus meaning 2 sets for back. I did hammer strength rows and then Wg Chins, so 2 sets total. Is this correct or should it be one set of rows to one set of Wg Chins and then back to rows meaning 2 sets of the initial movement?

Another example may be tier 2 chest load so 3 sets. Do I do press, flyes, cables meaning 3 sets or press, flyes (repeat press and flies to result in initial lift being completed 3 times)

Apart from that everything else makes sense and I'm sure I'm really going to enjoy this program.

Many thanks.

[Altamir]

I've read the book numerous times but I'm still a little confused with the zig-zagging process.

Ie I am on tier 1 and did upper load today thus meaning 2 sets for back. I did hammer strength rows and then Wg Chins, so 2 sets total. Is this correct or should it be one set of rows to one set of Wg Chins and then back to rows meaning 2 sets of the initial movement?

Another example may be tier 2 chest load so 3 sets. Do I do press, flyes, cables meaning 3 sets or press, flyes (repeat press and flies to result in initial lift being completed 3 times)

Apart from that everything else makes sense and I'm sure I'm really going to enjoy this program.

Many thanks.

Welcome Rob,

You did your back movements correctly, one set of thickness, one set of width. Take a look at this thread and see if this helps moving to tier 2. hope it helps and feel free to fire away with more questions if you need some further clarifcation!

Loading sets help