Saturated Fats

[weightsandplates]

Scott,

I'm curious whether your opinions on saturated fat have changed since you wrote FT. My understanding of what is said in the program is that the jury is (was) still out on whether they cause health problems or not.

I'm asking because I'm trying to stick to the nutrition scheme of low carb pre-workout and high carb post-workout, but in order to eat sufficient calories this way I'm eating lots of saturated fat from things like ground beef, cheese, eggs, and milk, on the order of around 40-50g a day (especially on non-training days). In the past I've basically had to pound the carbs all day to meet calorie goals.

[Scott Stevenson]

Scott,

I'm curious whether your opinions on saturated fat have changed since you wrote FT. My understanding of what is said in the program is that the jury is (was) still out on whether they cause health problems or not.

I'm asking because I'm trying to stick to the nutrition scheme of low carb pre-workout and high carb post-workout, but in order to eat sufficient calories this way I'm eating lots of saturated fat from things like ground beef, cheese, eggs, and milk, on the order of around 40-50g a day (especially on non-training days). In the past I've basically had to pound the carbs all day to meet calorie goals.

I cover this in my BYOBB Coach book.

Context is everything here, as well as one's genetic proclivities, of course, when it comes to how fat intake (amount, source and kind) affects cardiovascular risk.

You're shooting in the dark without some idea of your own current CVD risk and how that tracks with body fat, glycemic control, etc.

Replacing saturated fat food sources with omega-3 rich sources and using more monounsaturated sources would be my thought here, generally speaking. You can also go with more grass-fed vs. grain fed meat sources.

As far as your diet, I'm not sure how you've set it up, but I'd put in more carbs (peri-WO) to increase kcal vs. sat. fat sources on non-training days.

You're really asking for generalizations here, it seems, when what's most important is your particular situation (CVD risk, changes with diet and body comp, and the specifics of your dietary strategy, as well.)

-S

[weightsandplates]

I cover this in my BYOBB Coach book.

Context is everything here, as well as one's genetic proclivities, of course, when it comes to how fat intake (amount, source and kind) affects cardiovascular risk.

You're shooting in the dark without some idea of your own current CVD risk and how that tracks with body fat, glycemic control, etc.

Replacing saturated fat food sources with omega-3 rich sources and using more monounsaturated sources would be my thought here, generally speaking. You can also go with more grass-fed vs. grain fed meat sources.

As far as your diet, I'm not sure how you've set it up, but I'd put in more carbs (peri-WO) to increase kcal vs. sat. fat sources on non-training days.

You're really asking for generalizations here, it seems, when what's most important is your particular situation (CVD risk, changes with diet and body comp, and the specifics of your dietary strategy, as well.)

-S

Gotcha, I'll give a little more context on my personal situation to make it easier to answer.

I'm 24 years old, 6'0'' 176 lbs at roughly 13% BF starting my first blast of FT. The noteworthy medical info here is that I'm type 1 diabetic, and I've noticed in the past that saturated fat intake tends to inversely correlate with my insulin sensitivity. My glycemic control is pretty good for a T1D though. This is also a reason I'm hesitant to include lots of Peri-WO carbs: keeping close track of blood sugar while consuming high-glycemic carbs, dosing insulin to cover them, and exercising at the same time is difficult. I can really try and hammer the carbs post-WO though, I seem to have glossed over the fact that your calorie recommendations are significantly higher for training days the first time I read through the program.

Never had problems with lipid profile, I'm susceptible to High BP if I get lazy with exercise and diet though (I've got some family history of this as well).

Didn't want to give too much specific info just because I feel like an asshole asking you to evaluate my specific situation if I'm not paying for coaching, but if you have any immediate thoughts here I'd love to hear them. Think I'll buy your book too depending on how my first few blasts of FT go, I've listened to many of your interviews and I respect your approach and knowledge-base a hell of a lot. Thanks again!

[Scott Stevenson]

Gotcha, I'll give a little more context on my personal situation to make it easier to answer.

I'm 24 years old, 6'0'' 176 lbs at roughly 13% BF starting my first blast of FT. The noteworthy medical info here is that I'm type 1 diabetic, and I've noticed in the past that saturated fat intake tends to inversely correlate with my insulin sensitivity. My glycemic control is pretty good for a T1D though. This is also a reason I'm hesitant to include lots of Peri-WO carbs: keeping close track of blood sugar while consuming high-glycemic carbs, dosing insulin to cover them, and exercising at the same time is difficult. I can really try and hammer the carbs post-WO though, I seem to have glossed over the fact that your calorie recommendations are significantly higher for training days the first time I read through the program.

Yes, you have a pretty unique situation here, of course, and, if I were you, I'd definitely not use sat. fat sources as a main means of increasing kcal, given what you notice in terms of insulin sensitivity.

It sounds like post-WO carbs makes the most sense, of course. A standard intra (or one that you only would change very irregularly - not something fluctuating during the week) seems like it would be the most controllable.

Never had problems with lipid profile, I'm susceptible to High BP if I get lazy with exercise and diet though (I've got some family history of this as well).

Didn't want to give too much specific info just because I feel like an asshole asking you to evaluate my specific situation if I'm not paying for coaching, but if you have any immediate thoughts here I'd love to hear them. Think I'll buy your book too depending on how my first few blasts of FT go, I've listened to many of your interviews and I respect your approach and knowledge-base a hell of a lot. Thanks again!

Glad your lipid profile's in order (and that you've got BP under control).

I appreciate you not wanting a "free consult," too! Sometimes, giving a general answer can be more time-consuming, as in this case. (That's really a large reason why I've written my books in the way I do - to have all the info. there as a resource./ baseline source of information.)

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Have you ever intentionally manipulated your insulin admin. with the intent of using it for it's anti-catabolic / anabolic properties, rather than more purely for the purposes of glycemic control?... (Also wondering if you've ever used it, i.e., reduced use, to help with body fat loss...)

-S

[weightsandplates]

Have you ever intentionally manipulated your insulin admin. with the intent of using it for it's anti-catabolic / anabolic properties, rather than more purely for the purposes of glycemic control?... (Also wondering if you've ever used it, i.e., reduced use, to help with body fat loss...)

-S

I've put a good amount of thought into whether there's a way I can take advantage of the fact that I get to dictate my own insulin dosing, but almost any decision will realistically have to be met with a dietary analogue to that decision (e.g. if I want to take extra insulin, then I've got to eat extra carbs to avoid hypoglycemia, and vice versa). So that doesn't seem that different to me than a normal person just eating carbs if they want an insulin surge, or less carbs if they want to lose BF.

I'm honestly not sure how bodybuilders do this without experiencing severe hypoglycemia, especially with the protocols I see recommended for this (10-20 units spread around a workout seems to be a common recommendation). I know they typically have things like juice with it but that's a LOT of insulin and they're playing with fire, I've seen some absurd doses people claim to have used (~60 units a day) and I can only assume that those people have made themselves extremely insulin insensitive through diet (and drug use).

The only aspect I can think of that I might be able to manipulate to give me an advantage over a 'normal' person is the timing of the doses. For example, I could do a shot of insulin during or immediately after working out and look to eat carbs to cover it and avoid hypoglycemia within the next 15-30 minutes. Might not make much of a difference but in theory, I would have insulin hitting my system a little faster than a healthy pancreas would be releasing it since it has to wait for digestion to detect subsequent blood sugar changes.

This is getting a little more into the drug talk side of things which I know you like to avoid here, but I'd be very curious if you think there are other ways I could take advantage of the situation. I've read that insulin usage doesn't make much of a difference for bodybuilding if you aren't combining it with high doses of other PED's as well, this is all just speculation though.

[Scott Stevenson]

I've put a good amount of thought into whether there's a way I can take advantage of the fact that I get to dictate my own insulin dosing, but almost any decision will realistically have to be met with a dietary analogue to that decision (e.g. if I want to take extra insulin, then I've got to eat extra carbs to avoid hypoglycemia, and vice versa). So that doesn't seem that different to me than a normal person just eating carbs if they want an insulin surge, or less carbs if they want to lose BF.

I'm honestly not sure how bodybuilders do this without experiencing severe hypoglycemia, especially with the protocols I see recommended for this (10-20 units spread around a workout seems to be a common recommendation). I know they typically have things like juice with it but that's a LOT of insulin and they're playing with fire, I've seen some absurd doses people claim to have used (~60 units a day) and I can only assume that those people have made themselves extremely insulin insensitive through diet (and drug use).

The only aspect I can think of that I might be able to manipulate to give me an advantage over a 'normal' person is the timing of the doses. For example, I could do a shot of insulin during or immediately after working out and look to eat carbs to cover it and avoid hypoglycemia within the next 15-30 minutes. Might not make much of a difference but in theory, I would have insulin hitting my system a little faster than a healthy pancreas would be releasing it since it has to wait for digestion to detect subsequent blood sugar changes.

This is getting a little more into the drug talk side of things which I know you like to avoid here, but I'd be very curious if you think there are other ways I could take advantage of the situation. I've read that insulin usage doesn't make much of a difference for bodybuilding if you aren't combining it with high doses of other PED's as well, this is all just speculation though.

Yes, this is kind of fringy as far as drug use goes, but you've obviously got a medical need and really, I consider carbohydrate to have "drug like" or you might call it "secretagogue" effects as far as insulin goes, as does protein. I agree when you say that you're matching insulin to food in the way the body would.

[You're right in that a lot of them when the doses are high are becoming very insensitive. I'll not get into more of my thoughts on that here, as I do that sometimes on the Muscle Minds podcast. ]

One thing I was wondering if you might do is time larger protein does with your insulin / when you're using carbs. The insulin would cover the carbs of course and you'd take advantage of higher insulin elevation by timing protein intake around that, too.

I'm not suggesting you change your approach to insulin use - just wondering if / when you have done this. I would imagine there are some diabetics who err on the side of extra carbs vs. those who get by on as little as needed to safely maintain eu/hyperglycemia. For some I would imagine there might be some wiggle room here, so to speak.

-S