Loading and ZigZagging in Commercial Gym

[nick xynias]

Hi Guys,
Wanting some advice on how to set up loading days and zigzagging in a commercial gym. Lets look at legs for example

I've set up my 3 different exercises for thighs, quads and hams all ready to rotate and know that its super important to rotate exercises - however sometimes the equipment I need for these loading sets are taken.

Is it still okay to go into a session, knowing that loading will be on the legs and instead of going with a plan, adjust ad hoc depending on whatever equipment is free, (trying as best as possible not to have 2 sessions the same loading in a row) - I ask this because sometimes the squat and smith racks are taken for upwards of 40 mins, so if I have on my program to do squats - I could literally be at the gym for 3+ hours

also in terms of zigzagging at higher tiers - I know for a session of 2 sets of thighs, 1 set quads and 1 set ham, you would preferably go
Squat - leg extension (Failure) - squat (failure) - ham curl (failure)..

...because of the above issue with my gym, would it still be just as beneficial if I am unable to get to those machines to go
squat - squat (failure) - leg extension (failure) - ham curl (failure)

How do/did you guys get over training in busy commercial gyms?? Thanks everyone!

[Scott Stevenson]

Hi Guys,
Wanting some advice on how to set up loading days and zigzagging in a commercial gym. Lets look at legs for example

I've set up my 3 different exercises for thighs, quads and hams all ready to rotate and know that its super important to rotate exercises - however sometimes the equipment I need for these loading sets are taken.

Is it still okay to go into a session, knowing that loading will be on the legs and instead of going with a plan, adjust ad hoc depending on whatever equipment is free, (trying as best as possible not to have 2 sessions the same loading in a row) - I ask this because sometimes the squat and smith racks are taken for upwards of 40 mins, so if I have on my program to do squats - I could literally be at the gym for 3+ hours

also in terms of zigzagging at higher tiers - I know for a session of 2 sets of thighs, 1 set quads and 1 set ham, you would preferably go
Squat - leg extension (Failure) - squat (failure) - ham curl (failure)..

...because of the above issue with my gym, would it still be just as beneficial if I am unable to get to those machines to go
squat - squat (failure) - leg extension (failure) - ham curl (failure)

How do/did you guys get over training in busy commercial gyms?? Thanks everyone!

Nick,

I'd search around here a bit as I've addressed this a few times.

Not being able to get to a squat / power rack or smith machine could def. be an issue, regardless of what program you're doing - those are just basic piece of equipment. This is where folks might try to work in or find a different time of day to train (or do Day 1 and 2 of the program on weekdays when the chances are best of getting access to those pieces..)

As far as two compound exercise sets right in a row, hopefully someone can wait just a matter of 5 minutes for you do your 2nd set, or literally bout 3 minutes longer than if you did the isolation set in between.

FYI, i don't feel that what you use for the isolation exercise is quite as important as the compounds, so if you need to sacrifice an exercise d/t a busy gym, I'd make it the isolation exercise. E.g., for legs, if you can't make it happen, you can probably alway just jump in for a set of knee extension or ham curls. (Just be safe and sure that the machine is set up properly etc., as in that case you might not have done a warm-up there. inn those worst case scenarios, ending to the upper end of the 6-12 rep range (i.e., doing ~12 reps) would be favorable )

In the above scenario with upper body loading set zig zagging, it could also be that you squeeze in a rep or two of said isolation execs. E.g., if doing an overhead press zig zagged with DB laterals (that you hadn't planned on doing, and hadn't warmed up on), you might do the OH press and then walk right over to the DB rack and grab a light weight to do literally 2-3 practice reps and THEN start your rest interval. (This would just be to prime the nervous system for the movement and solidify in your mind of the load you'll choose in your fatigued stated when you do the actual Loading Set of DB side laterals.)

-S

[Kleen]

Hi Guys,
Wanting some advice on how to set up loading days and zigzagging in a commercial gym. Lets look at legs for example

I've set up my 3 different exercises for thighs, quads and hams all ready to rotate and know that its super important to rotate exercises - however sometimes the equipment I need for these loading sets are taken.

Is it still okay to go into a session, knowing that loading will be on the legs and instead of going with a plan, adjust ad hoc depending on whatever equipment is free, (trying as best as possible not to have 2 sessions the same loading in a row) - I ask this because sometimes the squat and smith racks are taken for upwards of 40 mins, so if I have on my program to do squats - I could literally be at the gym for 3+ hours

also in terms of zigzagging at higher tiers - I know for a session of 2 sets of thighs, 1 set quads and 1 set ham, you would preferably go
Squat - leg extension (Failure) - squat (failure) - ham curl (failure)..

...because of the above issue with my gym, would it still be just as beneficial if I am unable to get to those machines to go
squat - squat (failure) - leg extension (failure) - ham curl (failure)

How do/did you guys get over training in busy commercial gyms?? Thanks everyone!

I might be doing this wrong on mine, but for that set up I do it like this...

Squat to 1 left in the tank >Leg Extension xF>Squat xF> Stretch Quads
Leg Curls xF > Stretch Hamstrings

Although I am not sure if the above is "right" as written but my quads feel the stretch so much more doing it this way than finishing hamstrings and then stretching quads. The burn and metabolic build up is far more intense to me stretching the quads right after being worked.

Also, done that way you are only trying up 2 machines at a time. Easier to manage. Especially since you can use Sissy Squats holding a DB right there next to the squat / power rack or smith machine for the Quad exercise. Then you don't ever have to leave the station.

You could also choose to stay in the station and do all three by using SLDL as your hamstring movement. Remember they do not HAVE to be isolation movements, just movements that target the muscle more directly than the rest of the legs.

As far as workout exercise choices, is going at a different less busy time an option. It is far easier to hold down multiple peices of equipment during off hours. If you are going in at 4:30AM you don't tend to have any issues with this. If a different time is not an option then choosing I would say choosing any one of the 3 that was open and doing it would be good. Just note in the log book that you doubled up on one of them during the week to explain any performance issues.

If none of the 3 you are using as the main ones are available then I would go to whatever would be your next go to option is. What was # 4 that almost made the list, go for that one in a pinch. The rotation is for variation and stimulation of different areas of the muscle to all get worked. However it is much more important to get the load sets in than getting them in on the right movement. No work no reward so just do the work when you can't do the right movement.

[nick xynias]

Nick,

I'd search around here a bit as I've addressed this a few times.

Not being able to get to a squat / power rack or smith machine could def. be an issue, regardless of what program you're doing - those are just basic piece of equipment. This is where folks might try to work in or find a different time of day to train (or do Day 1 and 2 of the program on weekdays when the chances are best of getting access to those pieces..)

As far as two compound exercise sets right in a row, hopefully someone can wait just a matter of 5 minutes for you do your 2nd set, or literally bout 3 minutes longer than if you did the isolation set in between.

FYI, i don't feel that what you use for the isolation exercise is quite as important as the compounds, so if you need to sacrifice an exercise d/t a busy gym, I'd make it the isolation exercise. E.g., for legs, if you can't make it happen, you can probably alway just jump in for a set of knee extension or ham curls. (Just be safe and sure that the machine is set up properly etc., as in that case you might not have done a warm-up there. inn those worst case scenarios, ending to the upper end of the 6-12 rep range (i.e., doing ~12 reps) would be favorable )

In the above scenario with upper body loading set zig zagging, it could also be that you squeeze in a rep or two of said isolation execs. E.g., if doing an overhead press zig zagged with DB laterals (that you hadn't planned on doing, and hadn't warmed up on), you might do the OH press and then walk right over to the DB rack and grab a light weight to do literally 2-3 practice reps and THEN start your rest interval. (This would just be to prime the nervous system for the movement and solidify in your mind of the load you'll choose in your fatigued stated when you do the actual Loading Set of DB side laterals.)

-S

I guess there's always more than one way to skin a cat!! I've just been rotating between squat, hacksquat and smith squat on compound exercises depending on what's free - people generally are quite nice and don't mind me working in (e.g jumping and doing 1 leg extension set between my compound) but sometimes the rest period might be a bit longer...
...would that be a problem??

I'm sure because your a unit most people would jump off a machine straight away if you asked - I think I need to get a bit more size before my stature gets that reaction

---

I might be doing this wrong on mine, but for that set up I do it like this...

Squat to 1 left in the tank >Leg Extension xF>Squat xF> Stretch Quads
Leg Curls xF > Stretch Hamstrings

Although I am not sure if the above is "right" as written but my quads feel the stretch so much more doing it this way than finishing hamstrings and then stretching quads. The burn and metabolic build up is far more intense to me stretching the quads right after being worked.

Also, done that way you are only trying up 2 machines at a time. Easier to manage. Especially since you can use Sissy Squats holding a DB right there next to the squat / power rack or smith machine for the Quad exercise. Then you don't ever have to leave the station.

You could also choose to stay in the station and do all three by using SLDL as your hamstring movement. Remember they do not HAVE to be isolation movements, just movements that target the muscle more directly than the rest of the legs.

As far as workout exercise choices, is going at a different less busy time an option. It is far easier to hold down multiple peices of equipment during off hours. If you are going in at 4:30AM you don't tend to have any issues with this. If a different time is not an option then choosing I would say choosing any one of the 3 that was open and doing it would be good. Just note in the log book that you doubled up on one of them during the week to explain any performance issues.

If none of the 3 you are using as the main ones are available then I would go to whatever would be your next go to option is. What was # 4 that almost made the list, go for that one in a pinch. The rotation is for variation and stimulation of different areas of the muscle to all get worked. However it is much more important to get the load sets in than getting them in on the right movement. No work no reward so just do the work when you can't do the right movement.

thanks for that idea mate! usually my only go to exercise for 'quads' is leg extension because I feel it the best - but never thought of doing sissy squat or even changing the foot positioning during my compound squat to target the muscle during busy periods of the day!

I could always camp up in the rack and just stay there the whole night

[Scott Stevenson]

I might be doing this wrong on mine, but for that set up I do it like this...

Squat to 1 left in the tank >Leg Extension xF>Squat xF> Stretch Quads
Leg Curls xF > Stretch Hamstrings

Although I am not sure if the above is "right" as written but my quads feel the stretch so much more doing it this way than finishing hamstrings and then stretching quads. The burn and metabolic build up is far more intense to me stretching the quads right after being worked.

Also, done that way you are only trying up 2 machines at a time. Easier to manage. Especially since you can use Sissy Squats holding a DB right there next to the squat / power rack or smith machine for the Quad exercise. Then you don't ever have to leave the station.

You could also choose to stay in the station and do all three by using SLDL as your hamstring movement. Remember they do not HAVE to be isolation movements, just movements that target the muscle more directly than the rest of the legs.

As far as workout exercise choices, is going at a different less busy time an option. It is far easier to hold down multiple peices of equipment during off hours. If you are going in at 4:30AM you don't tend to have any issues with this. If a different time is not an option then choosing I would say choosing any one of the 3 that was open and doing it would be good. Just note in the log book that you doubled up on one of them during the week to explain any performance issues.

If none of the 3 you are using as the main ones are available then I would go to whatever would be your next go to option is. What was # 4 that almost made the list, go for that one in a pinch. The rotation is for variation and stimulation of different areas of the muscle to all get worked. However it is much more important to get the load sets in than getting them in on the right movement. No work no reward so just do the work when you can't do the right movement.

There are some good thoughts here - you got to do what you got to do and progression overall is most important.

As far as the quad stretch before the ham set, you're going to run over the rest interval - most certainly if you want to do a unilateral stretch that last 60+ s - and perhaps even impact ham recovery (compression on the muscle with the knee flexed), so the ham performance can be tossed out the window.

With the pump that I get personally, going immediately into a full on quad occlusion stretch for 60 agonizing seconds is, simply d/t the psychological burden, definitely going to impact ham exercise effort / rep output. If doing a flexility stretch, that's more easily doable.

-S

[Scott Stevenson]

I guess there's always more than one way to skin a cat!! I've just been rotating between squat, hacksquat and smith squat on compound exercises depending on what's free - people generally are quite nice and don't mind me working in (e.g jumping and doing 1 leg extension set between my compound) but sometimes the rest period might be a bit longer...
...would that be a problem??

If you're creeping forward on reps and load, which adds up over time, that variability in rest interval will make a difference.

For Quads, a great ham iso. exercise that you can almost always get away with is a lying DB ham curl (on the floor). Just grab the DB's and commandeer near under the machine / rack you're using.

Lap squats can also be used with a barbell as a quad iso movement, i.e., as your last exercise after your (compound) BB squat loading sets are over. The same can be down with a smith machine, but there you've got smith sissy hacks and somersault squats to choose from.

I'm sure because your a unit most people would jump off a machine straight away if you asked - I think I need to get a bit more size before my stature gets that reaction

LOL!!! I'm not like that at all in the gym, actually...

Just today, I had to grab a quick one (out of town traveling) and wanted to do a cable crossover pec fly. Another guy was doing pull-ups with the cross-bar of cross-cable machine and I went over to ask him if I could work in with the cross-cable. (He was bouncing around from machine to machine.) He was actually annoyed that I bothered him, which I suspected might happen.

IMO, No one has any more right to a machine really than another person, unless there's some common sense reason why someone should have priority. (E.g., if a monster is leg pressing 1000+lb and a 85yr woman wants to work in, it doesn't make sense for him to unload 20 plates each time she want to do a set when she could wait for him to finish.)

-S

[Kleen]

There are some good thoughts here - you got to do what you got to do and progression overall is most important.

As far as the quad stretch before the ham set, you're going to run over the rest interval - most certainly if you want to do a unilateral stretch that last 60+ s - and perhaps even impact ham recovery (compression on the muscle with the knee flexed), so the ham performance can be tossed out the window.

With the pump that I get personally, going immediately into a full on quad occlusion stretch for 60 agonizing seconds is, simply d/t the psychological burden, definitely going to impact ham exercise effort / rep output. If doing a flexility stretch, that's more easily doable.

-S

I have to admit that I found out the hard way on one of my last quad pump sets right into the stretch that it was too much... Almost went into some sort of shock during the stretch. I started sweating like a madman, almost threw up and then was wrecked for about 10 minutes. Hamstrings ended up almost a going through the motions type weights, even though I was trying to be intense.

Lesson learned.

[nick xynias]

If you're creeping forward on reps and load, which adds up over time, that variability in rest interval will make a difference.

For Quads, a great ham iso. exercise that you can almost always get away with is a lying DB ham curl (on the floor). Just grab the DB's and commandeer near under the machine / rack you're using.

Lap squats can also be used with a barbell as a quad iso movement, i.e., as your last exercise after your (compound) BB squat loading sets are over. The same can be down with a smith machine, but there you've got smith sissy hacks and somersault squats to choose from.


LOL!!! I'm not like that at all in the gym, actually...

Just today, I had to grab a quick one (out of town traveling) and wanted to do a cable crossover pec fly. Another guy was doing pull-ups with the cross-bar of cross-cable machine and I went over to ask him if I could work in with the cross-cable. (He was bouncing around from machine to machine.) He was actually annoyed that I bothered him, which I suspected might happen.

IMO, No one has any more right to a machine really than another person, unless there's some common sense reason why someone should have priority. (E.g., if a monster is leg pressing 1000+lb and a 85yr woman wants to work in, it doesn't make sense for him to unload 20 plates each time she want to do a set when she could wait for him to finish.)

-S

you'll get a laugh out of this scott - so training has been going great, been able to move between sets with a good rest period and just borrow peoples equipment (e.g leg extension between squat loading) -if I cant use the intended piece of equipment I wanted to, I spend the 1.30 rest period thinking of an ingenious way to target the muscle lol - but last night I had someone formally complain about me to the gym because I had to do a set of Hacks between my thigh compound, so I asked the gentleman who was on there (actually he was txting for about 2 minutes straight) if I could jump on.

....apparently I had no right to ask him to jump on in between his important txt period, and therefore complained!
Sometimes I wish I trained in an oldschool gym, where everyone just shared everything, and work was done! Loving the program so far!

[Scott Stevenson]

I have to admit that I found out the hard way on one of my last quad pump sets right into the stretch that it was too much... Almost went into some sort of shock during the stretch. I started sweating like a madman, almost threw up and then was wrecked for about 10 minutes. Hamstrings ended up almost a going through the motions type weights, even though I was trying to be intense.

Lesson learned.

The stretches are no joke - it's up to the person to make those as hard as they want to some degree.

The occlusion stretches are the ones that can test you and in a senses, I prefer these (and typically do these more often) b/c you can really focus on the muscle and don't have to worry about, as the stretch goes on, the difficulties in getting out from under / putting down a load.


And one thing I repeatedly find in camps and when working with folks who have been doing FT is that the stretches are neglected. Sometimes people don't even do them - at all... This is one of my first questions when someone is getting a lot of little nagging aches n' pain or overuse-type injuries: "Tell me how you're stretching?..."

Often the answer is, "Well, i've not really be doing a very good job at that... "

-S

[Kleen]

The stretches are no joke - it's up to the person to make those as hard as they want to some degree.

The occlusion stretches are the ones that can test you and in a senses, I prefer these (and typically do these more often) b/c you can really focus on the muscle and don't have to worry about, as the stretch goes on, the difficulties in getting out from under / putting down a load.


And one thing I repeatedly find in camps and when working with folks who have been doing FT is that the stretches are neglected. Sometimes people don't even do them - at all... This is one of my first questions when someone is getting a lot of little nagging aches n' pain or overuse-type injuries: "Tell me how you're stretching?..."

Often the answer is, "Well, i've not really be doing a very good job at that... "

-S

I have definitely found that I prefer occluded stretches for the exact same reason. Although I really like the DC Quad stretch, and since the body is the resistance there it is easy to come out of it or should I say fall to your knees and pant...

I love the stretching and only neglect it when I am running out of time for some reason.