FT Questions....

[Scott Stevenson]

Scott, I have a question for how you would modify FT for someone just starting out? I know this is a training program for those who are advanced enough to really know their bodies, or recognize the go to exercises to use. However, my daughter is starting to lift with me and wants to focus on her physique first now before trying to do a PL meet which I think is an excellent idea to get her a base of experience before she goes trying maximal lifts.

Rather than ask you to modify the layout for me I will list out some thoughts on how we can train within the same split, but not start really pushing the failure and intensity for a few months until I know the basic skills are there to do so.

Load Days - the thought for her was to do working warm up sets, and then the "work set" have her go until I see any sign of form degradation, or the rep becomes too slow where I think she may lose form on the next rep. In other words maybe 2 very hard reps left in the tank.

Pump Work - I feel like she can probably do the pump work as straight sets, but probably no reason to go into the partials initially.

Muscle Round Days - depending on the exercise do muscle rounds to 1 point of failure then stop, then gradually build up the volume to the 6 rounds, or choose a lighter weight that is just very challenging for her to complete all 6 rounds but she never quite reaches failure.

Option 2 - Just get her broken in with me on the MR days I am doing for a bit then start the actual split working her to failure on the exercises we choose to use machines for but not to failure with free weights. IE Failure on Leg Press, Not Squats, Failure on Chest Press Machine but not Barbell Bench... or would you do something like Option 1 then build into Option 2.

Option 3 - Just do the program as written and keep a very close eye on her and her form on all movements. Her natural recovery ability will control the pace at which she progresses.

A little history on my daughters fitness level. She is 13 years old, and very active, is on her schools dance team, as well as being a Black Belt and currently working toward her 2nd Dan. She was also in gymnastics for 2 years, so physical activity and high intensity are not foreign to her at all. Years of body weight PT from Karate, and the dance training have a pretty solid base of muscle built on her already but now we are venturing into the world of weights for her. She wants to get in shape and try to do a figure show in the next year or so. She has decided to embrace her natural thickness and muscularity rather than fight it, and wants to turn it into greatness. So I am here to help.

Sorry for the late reply on this - my computer's been crashing and I'm losing open tabs in my browser and thus my my reminder of what I need to do on line.

So this is really one that I can hardly address online. She's got a great history in intense physical activity, but I'm not seeing much about how much weight training she's doing.

This is what *I* would do:

I'd put an absolute premium on her learning proper form. It seems you want her to be training WITH you in some way, set by set like a partner and I'd put more emphasis on you coaching her.

For now, my thought would be that you'd do your lifting (say Loading sets) while she does the same main exercise, with a focus on form using higher reps.

Over time, as she learns lifting mechanics and sees what you're doing, you could perhaps start having her work in with you in a sense.

So, for thigh loading sets, you might have her do squats while you're warming up and zig-zagging compound and isolation exercises. Just have her learn to squat with perfect form that entire time.

During upper body pump exercises you might have her pic just three exercises for back, chest and shoulders and work on those.

In the above, there's not need to train arms and "learn" how to do knee extensions.

*I* would build her foundation with the big exercises and variations on those here, so she's introduced to those as the meat n' potatoes of training. Then you could work her in to more FT kind of formal training split and the different Set Types.

That's just me.

-S

[Scott Stevenson]

Hi Doc,
I've read some of your previous writings/interviews on pre workout nutrition specifically as well as re-read FT e-book Diet portion (And an interview in '11 with John Meadows on the subject) so as it stands (please correct me if I'm wrong or if this has changed) you employ a protein fat, low carb pre meal prior to training. I have 40g carb from cream of rice 25g P from whey iso pre workout, 40g Carb HBCD Intra (Recovery factor + other ingredients), and post workout is 6oz Lean beef and 60g carb from rice; my question is: Would I be better served in your opinion to take out pre workout carbs and increase them via intra/post? (I also use GDA pre/post workout meal)

I have about 2 months left of offseason, so I'm looking to get that last push of calories before dieting down
Thanks!

TO some degree you're probably splitting hairs there, but the purpose of no carbs pre-workout is:

• Some folks feel better without carbohydrate - the are more alert before trainign
• This makes room in a given caloric allotment for more carbs intra and post-workout
• This also tends to allow for more carbs in a peri-WO nutrient timing scenario b/c your stomach will be emptier, generally.

John M. like to have a decent amount of fat in the pre-workout meal with the purpose to help meter in blood glucose.

I'd say I lean toward a simply protein only meal pre-workout (there are multiple reasons why this would not always apply), given the reasons above (as less fat means fewer kcal and the opportunity to put those in as carbohydrate).

So, I'd try that and see how you feel, how your pump is when training (which can in and of itself be motivating).

Also, I like to keep the meal post-training lower in fat, so even a lean beef would not fit that bill, but again, this is splitting hairs here in your case. When someone is putting down maximum peri-workout food amounts, the fat's effect on digestion can be noticeable, so food choices are important. It doesn't sound like you're to that point yet..

-S

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Scott,

Having read through some of the dieting threads I've seen that you like to maintain training day caloric intake, specifically peri-workout caloric intake and then establish caloric deficit on rest days in order to maintain performance / recovery etc

Do you take this approach when gaining too? So keeping kcals at maintenance on rest days and then establishing the surplus on training days? Perhaps this could help with controlling body fat increases and even make your training performance and recovery improve as more kcals are being shoved In when you are most receptive to them

You pretty much nailed it!!!

When dieting down, you'd remove kcal peri-WO only as a last resort and when gaining in the off-season you'd add food on non-training days after you've maxed out the peri-WO recovery period's food intake (i.e.. you can't eat more during those meals).

As a side note, what are your thoughts on max rate of muscle gain on a weekly basis? I've read some articles saying that you can probably only build 0.5lbs of pure muscle tissue per week, obviously there may be slight variations due to genetics,muscle memory etc. But would you say aiming for 0.5lb weight gain per week is a good starting point?

Thanks!

Rate of muscle gain is HIGHLY Variable, ranging from non-responders to those who are genetic freaks.

0.5lb muscle / week would amount to ~25lb / year. THIS IS A TREMENDOUS increase in muscle mass, but that's not a bad number in terms of overall weight gain (0.5 lb of scale weight) to keep in mind, but context is super important here (including one's size - are we taking a 120lb woman or a 240lb guy?).

Keep in mind that this is / would be an *average* rate of annual gain but it will change over time (e..g, post-contents vs. 6 mo. into an off-season), and the *composition* of weight gain will change too as one goes along gaining weight over the course of a year. (More fat, more extracellular water and less muscle generally is the result when one is pushing for *new* levels of size - and one can go overboard here, too, such that nothing is gained in the long run after dieting back down.)

So, again, while that's a decent number to keep in mind for some people, context rules the day.

Post contest, if one is down, say, 30lb over the course of a 10-14 week diet, one *could* expect to gain back something along those lines over the course of the next 10-14 weeks, depending on goals, with the ideal being ending up *leaner* at a given body mass.

OTOH, when one is 10lb over a previous max body mass, deep into an off-season, and still wanting to push for more size (keeping in mind that the fat loss will take longer the more fat is gained), having a scale weight goal in mind can be a nice way to "keep the blinders" on when simply pushing the food at near intolerable amounts. (This is not a one size fits all strategy, of course, but for folks who are really pushing the extremes of muscle mass or who simply can't gain weight easily, it can come down to being largely a matter of mental strategies sometimes.)

So, those kind of goals are tools - for motivation and monitoring - and their value should be weighed as such (pardon the pun). You've also got, of course, THE MIRROR, strength in the gym, aches n' pains during training, skin folds (body fat estimation / comparison with previous year's measurements), your perceived recovery, your ease of digestion and hunger levels, etc. to help monitor things as you go along and know when your progress is more optimal in terms of muscle gain vs. fat gain.

-Scott

[thethinker48]

Hey Scott,

Do you ever rotate out exercises and lose thickness in that muscle group? My triceps respond real well to weighed dips, so I made them my main MR for the past 8 months, and added 50 lbs to my initial starting poundage; triceps grew tremendously with this.

But as you get stronger and stronger, progression becomes slower; so I chose to opt them out with close grip bench in the Smith with elbows tucked in. I can almost notice within the last 3-4 weeks that I'm losing some of that side thickness from taking out dips.

Any thoughts on this? I'm assuming when I go back to dips, I'll be stronger and gain back any lost "size" (not even sure how to phrase it), and start progressing again.

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[Kleen]

So this is really one that I can hardly address online. She's got a great history in intense physical activity, but I'm not seeing much about how much weight training she's doing.

I'd put an absolute premium on her learning proper form. It seems you want her to be training WITH you in some way, set by set like a partner and I'd put more emphasis on you coaching her.

For now, my thought would be that you'd do your lifting (say Loading sets) while she does the same main exercise, with a focus on form using higher reps.

So, for thigh loading sets, you might have her do squats while you're warming up and zig-zagging compound and isolation exercises. Just have her learn to squat with perfect form that entire time.

During upper body pump exercises you might have her pic just three exercises for back, chest and shoulders and work on those.

*I* would build her foundation with the big exercises and variations on those here, so she's introduced to those as the meat n' potatoes of training. Then you could work her in to more FT kind of formal training split and the different Set Types.

-S

Thanks Scott,

That kind of goes along with what I have been doing so far. Just that I have been doing upper and lower body MR workouts only. She has just been doing some straight sets on the main lifts and I keep her away from failure.

I do want her to work out with me as a partner once she is adjusted enough to do so. However, it is about how to get her adjusted WHILE we are working out within the same time frame. Where I can be close by her to coach her on all of her sets. I know that means occasionally I may rest longer or something but for now I am perfectly okay with that

As far as previous lifting experience, not too much, she has worked out with me before when she was a little younger and she already has a base of about the last 4-5 months of Bench, Squat and Deadlifting. She does have pretty good mind muscle connection from all of the other types of training and it definitely carries over in her ability to pick up proper form. She takes coaching cues very well!!! I am pretty impressed with how well she does.

For back we do pull downs & dead lifts or rowing, for legs she does multiple sets of squats, and for pressing it is Bench, and Overhead Press that are the meat and potatoes, then I let her try some of the isolation machines for each if she wants once I work her through the meat of the main lift.

So on the lower MR Days I have been doing, her workout may look like 6 sets of squats, and then leg extension, leg curls, and calf raises x3. She is limited on how long she can squat due to fatigue starting to set in. Her target is 6 sets 5 right now working up to 55lbs, stopping at the point she starts slowing down enough that I worry about form breakdown. She hit all 6 of them at 5 last time and wanted to go up next time. I told her we were staying at that weight until she can build up some more reps. She just HAD to have some weight on the bar mentally to feel proud of herself... I saw her form was good and decided if it kept her motivated we could go up but after that it is all reps until we get up to 10 or so. So next time we will start trying for 6 reps each set.

I imagine in the near future I may just start getting up @ 4AM again to train then train her separately in the evenings but right now she really seems to like doing it with me. Anything that keeps her engaged is what I am all about!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, it was basically how I expected you to answer. Get the fundamentals in and nailed down before pushing into the intensity stuff.

I already have a good plan based off of your suggestions, that I believe will work great!

Lower Load + Squat x4-6 working sets, calf x2
Upper Pump 2-3 set x 15-20 reps = Lat Pull Down / Assisted Chin, Chest Press Machine, OHP

Rest

Upper Load - Dead Lifts x3-4 sets, Bench 3-4 sets -
Lower Pump 2-3 sets x 15-20 - Leg Press w/ quad focus, Leg Curls, Calves

As far as MR days go, would you do them at all, do them as written or adjust them a bit?

I thought that I may do some X rep type stuff for her. Something like weight she can do for 15 reps for 10, rest 30 seconds then repeat for 3-4 sets. Get her a little used to the feeling of lactic acid building up. If so these would likely be done on machines over free weight for safety purposes.

Also she wants to lean up a good bit. Since the training methods she will be using at first will not provide the same EPOC as Fortitude Training, I assume I should have her doing some conditioning work. My thought was to isolate that to non lifting days, and keep those days in a deeper deficit focusing on fat loss. Then have her training days a bit higher in calories to enhance performance and recovery. From what I have seen you prefer to keep conditioning away from strength training to avoid sending the body mixed signals on what to adapt to. Interestingly enough this practice has already become my normal process over the last several years. I noticed it seemed more efficient for me to eat and train specifically for the goal of growth or fat loss on a day by day basis. I have been calling them Build and Burn days for a while now.

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Scott,

Do you ever rotate out exercises and lose thickness in that muscle group? My triceps respond real well to weighed dips, so I made them my main MR for the past 8 months, and added 50 lbs to my initial starting poundage; triceps grew tremendously with this.

But as you get stronger and stronger, progression becomes slower; so I chose to opt them out with close grip bench in the Smith with elbows tucked in. I can almost notice within the last 3-4 weeks that I'm losing some of that side thickness from taking out dips.

Any thoughts on this? I'm assuming when I go back to dips, I'll be stronger and gain back any lost "size" (not even sure how to phrase it), and start progressing again.

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This is a simple one - you know the answer already.

Dips are a great triceps exercise for you. As long as your'e not having an overuse issue with them, I'd keep them in your program on a regular basis. You can change elbows flare, use dip machines, do triceps dips (on a bench), etc, but if you've been doing standard dips, then I'd keep them in.

Even if you don't progress on dips for some period, but you do on other exercises, I bet your triceps will improve overall (as long as you're gaining weight, too.)

-S

[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks Scott,

That kind of goes along with what I have been doing so far. Just that I have been doing upper and lower body MR workouts only. She has just been doing some straight sets on the main lifts and I keep her away from failure.

I do want her to work out with me as a partner once she is adjusted enough to do so. However, it is about how to get her adjusted WHILE we are working out within the same time frame. Where I can be close by her to coach her on all of her sets. I know that means occasionally I may rest longer or something but for now I am perfectly okay with that

As far as previous lifting experience, not too much, she has worked out with me before when she was a little younger and she already has a base of about the last 4-5 months of Bench, Squat and Deadlifting. She does have pretty good mind muscle connection from all of the other types of training and it definitely carries over in her ability to pick up proper form. She takes coaching cues very well!!! I am pretty impressed with how well she does.

For back we do pull downs & dead lifts or rowing, for legs she does multiple sets of squats, and for pressing it is Bench, and Overhead Press that are the meat and potatoes, then I let her try some of the isolation machines for each if she wants once I work her through the meat of the main lift.

So on the lower MR Days I have been doing, her workout may look like 6 sets of squats, and then leg extension, leg curls, and calf raises x3. She is limited on how long she can squat due to fatigue starting to set in. Her target is 6 sets 5 right now working up to 55lbs, stopping at the point she starts slowing down enough that I worry about form breakdown. She hit all 6 of them at 5 last time and wanted to go up next time. I told her we were staying at that weight until she can build up some more reps. She just HAD to have some weight on the bar mentally to feel proud of herself... I saw her form was good and decided if it kept her motivated we could go up but after that it is all reps until we get up to 10 or so. So next time we will start trying for 6 reps each set.

I imagine in the near future I may just start getting up @ 4AM again to train then train her separately in the evenings but right now she really seems to like doing it with me. Anything that keeps her engaged is what I am all about!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, it was basically how I expected you to answer. Get the fundamentals in and nailed down before pushing into the intensity stuff.

I already have a good plan based off of your suggestions, that I believe will work great!

Lower Load + Squat x4-6 working sets, calf x2
Upper Pump 2-3 set x 15-20 reps = Lat Pull Down / Assisted Chin, Chest Press Machine, OHP

Rest

Upper Load - Dead Lifts x3-4 sets, Bench 3-4 sets -
Lower Pump 2-3 sets x 15-20 - Leg Press w/ quad focus, Leg Curls, Calves

As far as MR days go, would you do them at all, do them as written or adjust them a bit?

I thought that I may do some X rep type stuff for her. Something like weight she can do for 15 reps for 10, rest 30 seconds then repeat for 3-4 sets. Get her a little used to the feeling of lactic acid building up. If so these would likely be done on machines over free weight for safety purposes.

Also she wants to lean up a good bit. Since the training methods she will be using at first will not provide the same EPOC as Fortitude Training, I assume I should have her doing some conditioning work. My thought was to isolate that to non lifting days, and keep those days in a deeper deficit focusing on fat loss. Then have her training days a bit higher in calories to enhance performance and recovery. From what I have seen you prefer to keep conditioning away from strength training to avoid sending the body mixed signals on what to adapt to. Interestingly enough this practice has already become my normal process over the last several years. I noticed it seemed more efficient for me to eat and train specifically for the goal of growth or fat loss on a day by day basis. I have been calling them Build and Burn days for a while now.

Hey Bud!

SO, I'm not going to address all that you've written, but I think this will help even more than doing that.
'
I'd list out her specific goals. You said in you initial question that she wants to work on her physique. Also, I think she's still on the school's dance team and does martial arts, so there' some balance to he had there.

At 13, her body could very well still be changing (not sure where in adolescence she is developmentally), so those changes could very well overshadow physique changes in the gym.

SO, I'd look at where her priorities are and what's reasonable given other activity and physiologically in this stage of her life.

Then, you can construct a program that's appropriate.

If post-pubescent hormonal changes have leveled out, then dropping some body fat might be something that's more reasonable, but if she's developing female secondary sex characteristics (body fat, breast size, etc.) then you could be beating your head against a wall to some degree.

Also, program will depend on how much she's doing with those other activities.

FT is set up to ideally be a system that is the primary / only really stimulate for adaptation to (resistance) exercise, meaning that ones not juggling other strenuous activity like martial arts or competitive dance.

---------

All that being said, I think it sounds like you're doing a great job inching her into new territory as far as exercises, set types, etc. You could add in muscle rounds or start with X-reps, as well, and simply go with the flow of her interest, recovery level and how / when those other sports come into season / become more a part of her life.

The nice thing here is that if / when you come up with an adapted form of FT (that suits where she is developmentally as a lifter and woman), you will have the skeletal of the FT Tier Structure which can guide you in adjusting volume as needed given the other activities she's doing.

SO, l'd show her as much as you can, but at the pace that you see fit, as it's really pretty tough for me to evaluate her second hand like this.

(Again, I think your'e doing a good job. You might also have guessed that it could be that she gets interested in boys soon and doesn't want to lift at all, or perhpas the opposite - she wants to be in the gym even more!!! LOL)

-S

[thethinker48]

This is a simple one - you know the answer already.

Dips are a great triceps exercise for you. As long as your'e not having an overuse issue with them, I'd keep them in your program on a regular basis. You can change elbows flare, use dip machines, do triceps dips (on a bench), etc, but if you've been doing standard dips, then I'd keep them in.

Even if you don't progress on dips for some period, but you do on other exercises, I bet your triceps will improve overall (as long as you're gaining weight, too.)

-S

Thanks a lot Scott!

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[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks a lot Scott!

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You're welcome!

-S

[masonator]

Hi again, been a while since i have been on here but thinking of delving into FT again after a while away on a PHUL type routine.

If i am honest, the reason i stopped FT after 4 blasts was just that i missed the regular progression on a particular exercise week in week out and wanted to simplify it a bit.

With hindsight, i believe there are many aspects of FT that suit me but not all and being a customisable style of program (as i understand it!) nothing is set in stone so i wonder if i could do the following with it:

Make loading sets the same exercise per body part each week for the duration of a blast, so say squats, inc bench, rack deads etc every week?

Also, with 3 kids and daddy duties i am limited to training 2on 2 off 2on 1 off, you dont see any issue with this do you assuming nutrition etc is on point?