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FT Questions....
10-16-2017, 06:10 AM
Post: #1191
RE: FT Questions....
Hey Scott,

Do you ever rotate out exercises and lose thickness in that muscle group? My triceps respond real well to weighed dips, so I made them my main MR for the past 8 months, and added 50 lbs to my initial starting poundage; triceps grew tremendously with this.

But as you get stronger and stronger, progression becomes slower; so I chose to opt them out with close grip bench in the Smith with elbows tucked in. I can almost notice within the last 3-4 weeks that I'm losing some of that side thickness from taking out dips.

Any thoughts on this? I'm assuming when I go back to dips, I'll be stronger and gain back any lost "size" (not even sure how to phrase it), and start progressing again.

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10-18-2017, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 10-18-2017 02:35 AM by Kleen.)
Post: #1192
RE: FT Questions....
(10-16-2017 01:29 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote:
 
So this is really one that I can hardly address online. She's got a great history in intense physical activity, but I'm not seeing much about how much weight training she's doing.

I'd put an absolute premium on her learning proper form. It seems you want her to be training WITH you in some way, set by set like a partner and I'd put more emphasis on you coaching her.

For now, my thought would be that you'd do your lifting (say Loading sets) while she does the same main exercise, with a focus on form using higher reps.

So, for thigh loading sets, you might have her do squats while you're warming up and zig-zagging compound and isolation exercises. Just have her learn to squat with perfect form that entire time.

During upper body pump exercises you might have her pic just three exercises for back, chest and shoulders and work on those.

*I* would build her foundation with the big exercises and variations on those here, so she's introduced to those as the meat n' potatoes of training. Smile Then you could work her in to more FT kind of formal training split and the different Set Types. Smile

-S
Thanks Scott,

That kind of goes along with what I have been doing so far. Just that I have been doing upper and lower body MR workouts only. She has just been doing some straight sets on the main lifts and I keep her away from failure.

I do want her to work out with me as a partner once she is adjusted enough to do so. However, it is about how to get her adjusted WHILE we are working out within the same time frame. Where I can be close by her to coach her on all of her sets. I know that means occasionally I may rest longer or something but for now I am perfectly okay with that

As far as previous lifting experience, not too much, she has worked out with me before when she was a little younger and she already has a base of about the last 4-5 months of Bench, Squat and Deadlifting. She does have pretty good mind muscle connection from all of the other types of training and it definitely carries over in her ability to pick up proper form. She takes coaching cues very well!!! I am pretty impressed with how well she does.

For back we do pull downs & dead lifts or rowing, for legs she does multiple sets of squats, and for pressing it is Bench, and Overhead Press that are the meat and potatoes, then I let her try some of the isolation machines for each if she wants once I work her through the meat of the main lift.

So on the lower MR Days I have been doing, her workout may look like 6 sets of squats, and then leg extension, leg curls, and calf raises x3. She is limited on how long she can squat due to fatigue starting to set in. Her target is 6 sets 5 right now working up to 55lbs, stopping at the point she starts slowing down enough that I worry about form breakdown. She hit all 6 of them at 5 last time and wanted to go up next time. I told her we were staying at that weight until she can build up some more reps. She just HAD to have some weight on the bar mentally to feel proud of herself... I saw her form was good and decided if it kept her motivated we could go up but after that it is all reps until we get up to 10 or so. So next time we will start trying for 6 reps each set.

I imagine in the near future I may just start getting up @ 4AM again to train then train her separately in the evenings but right now she really seems to like doing it with me. Anything that keeps her engaged is what I am all about!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, it was basically how I expected you to answer. Get the fundamentals in and nailed down before pushing into the intensity stuff.

I already have a good plan based off of your suggestions, that I believe will work great!

Lower Load + Squat x4-6 working sets, calf x2
Upper Pump 2-3 set x 15-20 reps = Lat Pull Down / Assisted Chin, Chest Press Machine, OHP

Rest

Upper Load - Dead Lifts x3-4 sets, Bench 3-4 sets -
Lower Pump 2-3 sets x 15-20 - Leg Press w/ quad focus, Leg Curls, Calves

As far as MR days go, would you do them at all, do them as written or adjust them a bit?

I thought that I may do some X rep type stuff for her. Something like weight she can do for 15 reps for 10, rest 30 seconds then repeat for 3-4 sets. Get her a little used to the feeling of lactic acid building up. If so these would likely be done on machines over free weight for safety purposes.

Also she wants to lean up a good bit. Since the training methods she will be using at first will not provide the same EPOC as Fortitude Training, I assume I should have her doing some conditioning work. My thought was to isolate that to non lifting days, and keep those days in a deeper deficit focusing on fat loss. Then have her training days a bit higher in calories to enhance performance and recovery. From what I have seen you prefer to keep conditioning away from strength training to avoid sending the body mixed signals on what to adapt to. Interestingly enough this practice has already become my normal process over the last several years. I noticed it seemed more efficient for me to eat and train specifically for the goal of growth or fat loss on a day by day basis. I have been calling them Build and Burn days for a while now.
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10-19-2017, 09:17 AM
Post: #1193
RE: FT Questions....
(10-16-2017 06:10 AM)thethinker48 Wrote:
 
Hey Scott,

Do you ever rotate out exercises and lose thickness in that muscle group? My triceps respond real well to weighed dips, so I made them my main MR for the past 8 months, and added 50 lbs to my initial starting poundage; triceps grew tremendously with this.

But as you get stronger and stronger, progression becomes slower; so I chose to opt them out with close grip bench in the Smith with elbows tucked in. I can almost notice within the last 3-4 weeks that I'm losing some of that side thickness from taking out dips.

Any thoughts on this? I'm assuming when I go back to dips, I'll be stronger and gain back any lost "size" (not even sure how to phrase it), and start progressing again.

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This is a simple one - you know the answer already.

Dips are a great triceps exercise for you. As long as your'e not having an overuse issue with them, I'd keep them in your program on a regular basis. You can change elbows flare, use dip machines, do triceps dips (on a bench), etc, but if you've been doing standard dips, then I'd keep them in.

Even if you don't progress on dips for some period, but you do on other exercises, I bet your triceps will improve overall (as long as you're gaining weight, too.)

-S

-Scott

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10-19-2017, 09:29 AM
Post: #1194
RE: FT Questions....
(10-18-2017 02:24 AM)Kleen Wrote:
 
Thanks Scott,

That kind of goes along with what I have been doing so far. Just that I have been doing upper and lower body MR workouts only. She has just been doing some straight sets on the main lifts and I keep her away from failure.

I do want her to work out with me as a partner once she is adjusted enough to do so. However, it is about how to get her adjusted WHILE we are working out within the same time frame. Where I can be close by her to coach her on all of her sets. I know that means occasionally I may rest longer or something but for now I am perfectly okay with that

As far as previous lifting experience, not too much, she has worked out with me before when she was a little younger and she already has a base of about the last 4-5 months of Bench, Squat and Deadlifting. She does have pretty good mind muscle connection from all of the other types of training and it definitely carries over in her ability to pick up proper form. She takes coaching cues very well!!! I am pretty impressed with how well she does.

For back we do pull downs & dead lifts or rowing, for legs she does multiple sets of squats, and for pressing it is Bench, and Overhead Press that are the meat and potatoes, then I let her try some of the isolation machines for each if she wants once I work her through the meat of the main lift.

So on the lower MR Days I have been doing, her workout may look like 6 sets of squats, and then leg extension, leg curls, and calf raises x3. She is limited on how long she can squat due to fatigue starting to set in. Her target is 6 sets 5 right now working up to 55lbs, stopping at the point she starts slowing down enough that I worry about form breakdown. She hit all 6 of them at 5 last time and wanted to go up next time. I told her we were staying at that weight until she can build up some more reps. She just HAD to have some weight on the bar mentally to feel proud of herself... I saw her form was good and decided if it kept her motivated we could go up but after that it is all reps until we get up to 10 or so. So next time we will start trying for 6 reps each set.

I imagine in the near future I may just start getting up @ 4AM again to train then train her separately in the evenings but right now she really seems to like doing it with me. Anything that keeps her engaged is what I am all about!!!!

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, it was basically how I expected you to answer. Get the fundamentals in and nailed down before pushing into the intensity stuff.

I already have a good plan based off of your suggestions, that I believe will work great!

Lower Load + Squat x4-6 working sets, calf x2
Upper Pump 2-3 set x 15-20 reps = Lat Pull Down / Assisted Chin, Chest Press Machine, OHP

Rest

Upper Load - Dead Lifts x3-4 sets, Bench 3-4 sets -
Lower Pump 2-3 sets x 15-20 - Leg Press w/ quad focus, Leg Curls, Calves

As far as MR days go, would you do them at all, do them as written or adjust them a bit?

I thought that I may do some X rep type stuff for her. Something like weight she can do for 15 reps for 10, rest 30 seconds then repeat for 3-4 sets. Get her a little used to the feeling of lactic acid building up. If so these would likely be done on machines over free weight for safety purposes.

Also she wants to lean up a good bit. Since the training methods she will be using at first will not provide the same EPOC as Fortitude Training, I assume I should have her doing some conditioning work. My thought was to isolate that to non lifting days, and keep those days in a deeper deficit focusing on fat loss. Then have her training days a bit higher in calories to enhance performance and recovery. From what I have seen you prefer to keep conditioning away from strength training to avoid sending the body mixed signals on what to adapt to. Interestingly enough this practice has already become my normal process over the last several years. I noticed it seemed more efficient for me to eat and train specifically for the goal of growth or fat loss on a day by day basis. I have been calling them Build and Burn days for a while now.

Hey Bud!

SO, I'm not going to address all that you've written, but I think this will help even more than doing that.
'
I'd list out her specific goals. You said in you initial question that she wants to work on her physique. Also, I think she's still on the school's dance team and does martial arts, so there' some balance to he had there.

At 13, her body could very well still be changing (not sure where in adolescence she is developmentally), so those changes could very well overshadow physique changes in the gym.

SO, I'd look at where her priorities are and what's reasonable given other activity and physiologically in this stage of her life.

Then, you can construct a program that's appropriate.

If post-pubescent hormonal changes have leveled out, then dropping some body fat might be something that's more reasonable, but if she's developing female secondary sex characteristics (body fat, breast size, etc.) then you could be beating your head against a wall to some degree.

Also, program will depend on how much she's doing with those other activities.

FT is set up to ideally be a system that is the primary / only really stimulate for adaptation to (resistance) exercise, meaning that ones not juggling other strenuous activity like martial arts or competitive dance.

---------

All that being said, I think it sounds like you're doing a great job inching her into new territory as far as exercises, set types, etc. You could add in muscle rounds or start with X-reps, as well, and simply go with the flow of her interest, recovery level and how / when those other sports come into season / become more a part of her life.

The nice thing here is that if / when you come up with an adapted form of FT (that suits where she is developmentally as a lifter and woman), you will have the skeletal of the FT Tier Structure which can guide you in adjusting volume as needed given the other activities she's doing.

SO, l'd show her as much as you can, but at the pace that you see fit, as it's really pretty tough for me to evaluate her second hand like this.

(Again, I think your'e doing a good job. You might also have guessed that it could be that she gets interested in boys soon and doesn't want to lift at all, or perhpas the opposite - she wants to be in the gym even more!!! LOL)

-S

-Scott

Thanks for joining my Forum! dog

The above and all material posted by Scott Stevenson are Copyright © Scott W. Stevenson and Evlogia QiWorks, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
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10-20-2017, 03:16 AM
Post: #1195
RE: FT Questions....
(10-19-2017 09:17 AM)Scott Stevenson Wrote:
 
This is a simple one - you know the answer already.

Dips are a great triceps exercise for you. As long as your'e not having an overuse issue with them, I'd keep them in your program on a regular basis. You can change elbows flare, use dip machines, do triceps dips (on a bench), etc, but if you've been doing standard dips, then I'd keep them in.

Even if you don't progress on dips for some period, but you do on other exercises, I bet your triceps will improve overall (as long as you're gaining weight, too.)

-S
Thanks a lot Scott!

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Yesterday, 10:43 AM
Post: #1196
RE: FT Questions....
(10-20-2017 03:16 AM)thethinker48 Wrote:
 
Thanks a lot Scott!

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You're welcome!

-S

-Scott

Thanks for joining my Forum! dog

The above and all material posted by Scott Stevenson are Copyright © Scott W. Stevenson and Evlogia QiWorks, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
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