Knee friendly FT

[Doc D]

The symptoms sound very much like patello-femoral syndrome. Is there obtrusive crepitus?
In addition to above advice, pay particular attention to gluteus medius - one can self-massage it deeply. Tightness here can cause all kinds of tracking problems. Posterior tibialis can also cwreak havoc. Both of these are easier to address with massage etc. than it is to implement the standard advice of strengthening VMO (Petersen stepups etc.)
Another tip: try wearing lifting shoes (i.e. with solid sole) when training 'quads', although not necessarily ones with high heel. The rest of the time, as much as possible, stay as close to barefoot as possible (e.g. barefoot where socially acceptable, Vibram FiveFingers in gym, Vivo Barefoot shoes for walking around etc.) in order to strengthen feet from the ground up. This can make a huge difference.
I took the cartilage off back of patella when my knee dislocated 20+ years ago, so feel your pain quite literally!

[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks I just put the oil and a foam roller in my amazon basket, so it will arrive when I get back onshore.

I already do a lot of stretching after each exercise, but I have time to do more out here, so will up and also do light on my cardio days.
My cardio is just 20 mins of bicycle, since many have told me that´s good for the knees.

I'd push with the heels on the pedals here, but not do this if you can sense any irritation to your knee.

That foam roller can be used to stretch the gluteus medius, as Doc D notes below and, everyone's favorite, the IT Band.

I´m not sure I can get any therapists to look at if, because for that I a referral from my own doctor. Would a sport massage therapist or so be at any help, because those I can go to without a referral from my doctor.

Could be, but that depend on the person. One possibility here is that you've developed some mist racking of the patella (you knee cap isn't traveling over the femur as it should) and the pain in causing a vicious circle of mis-tracking, during day to activities as as well as training.

There are all sorts of subtle things that might have created a perfect storm, including a stretched retinaculum or development of plica syndrome (but I'd expect a clicking - Runtime Error

I'd be careful to keep from kneeling on that knee (if you happen to do that at work?...)

I never heard any popping or so, for the past 19 years it have been so minor I would never really put much interest to it. Before when I had any pains, I would relax for about a week and not feel a thing for years again. But I guess with age it´s getting worse.

I'm not buying the age card here - You're like 30, right?...

Now, if you've been powerlifting at an elite level for 15 years, then maybe...

Thanks guys, really appreciate the help!

Sure!

The symptoms sound very much like patello-femoral syndrome. Is there obtrusive crepitus?
In addition to above advice, pay particular attention to gluteus medius - one can self-massage it deeply. Tightness here can cause all kinds of tracking problems. Posterior tibialis can also cwreak havoc. Both of these are easier to address with massage etc. than it is to implement the standard advice of strengthening VMO (Petersen stepups etc.)
Another tip: try wearing lifting shoes (i.e. with solid sole) when training 'quads', although not necessarily ones with high heel. The rest of the time, as much as possible, stay as close to barefoot as possible (e.g. barefoot where socially acceptable, Vibram FiveFingers in gym, Vivo Barefoot shoes for walking around etc.) in order to strengthen feet from the ground up. This can make a huge difference.
I took the cartilage off back of patella when my knee dislocated 20+ years ago, so feel your pain quite literally!

Thanks for chiming in, Doc.

A sports massage therapist could also check you for a leg length discrepancy, Frito.

(WRT the bolded, this would fit with the vicious cycle theory. Ff your VMO - tear drop muscle - is not firing well, it might have atrophied and esp. with a tight outer thigh compartment, your patella might be tracking laterally. Can you feel that your vastus medialis is getting a good pump and getting sore when training legs?... )

-S

[Frito]

The symptoms sound very much like patello-femoral syndrome. Is there obtrusive crepitus?
In addition to above advice, pay particular attention to gluteus medius - one can self-massage it deeply. Tightness here can cause all kinds of tracking problems. Posterior tibialis can also cwreak havoc. Both of these are easier to address with massage etc. than it is to implement the standard advice of strengthening VMO (Petersen stepups etc.)
Another tip: try wearing lifting shoes (i.e. with solid sole) when training 'quads', although not necessarily ones with high heel. The rest of the time, as much as possible, stay as close to barefoot as possible (e.g. barefoot where socially acceptable, Vibram FiveFingers in gym, Vivo Barefoot shoes for walking around etc.) in order to strengthen feet from the ground up. This can make a huge difference.
I took the cartilage off back of patella when my knee dislocated 20+ years ago, so feel your pain quite literally!

I´m sorry English is not my first language, so don´t know what your asking me, tried to google it, but didn´t get any smarter.
But thanks for your suggestions, shoes are out of the question though, can´t bring much more weight out here in my bags.

[Frito]

I'd push with the heels on the pedals here, but not do this if you can sense any irritation to your knee.

That foam roller can be used to stretch the gluteus medius, as Doc D notes below and, everyone's favorite, the IT Band.



Could be, but that depend on the person. One possibility here is that you've developed some mist racking of the patella (you knee cap isn't traveling over the femur as it should) and the pain in causing a vicious circle of mis-tracking, during day to activities as as well as training.

There are all sorts of subtle things that might have created a perfect storm, including a stretched retinaculum or development of plica syndrome (but I'd expect a clicking - Runtime Error

I'd be careful to keep from kneeling on that knee (if you happen to do that at work?...)



I'm not buying the age card here - You're like 30, right?...

Now, if you've been powerlifting at an elite level for 15 years, then maybe...


Sure!


Thanks for chiming in, Doc.

A sports massage therapist could also check you for a leg length discrepancy, Frito.

(WRT the bolded, this would fit with the vicious cycle theory. Ff your VMO - tear drop muscle - is not firing well, it might have atrophied and esp. with a tight outer thigh compartment, your patella might be tracking laterally. Can you feel that your vastus medialis is getting a good pump and getting sore when training legs?... )

-S

I did bicycle and stretch for 20 minutes today, pain free.
But walking up and down the stairs a lot today and that do hurt.

I have always been careful with kneeling down, learned that when I was a mechanic from and older guy who developed knee problems from it.
So I rarely do it and try to always use a pad if I do for longer periods.

But honestly I doubt my work is causing me the problems, over the past 16 days offshore I worked a total of 12 hours and that´s quite normal for me. So most of the day is sitting with the computer or watching movies in the sofa.

Yeah only 30 years old and been to gym only 10 of those.

I will get an appointment with the sports massage therapist I know and see what he can do. He did save my lower back last time.

Yeah that´s the part of the muscle I really feel when I work out.

I have one thing I have left out because I didn´t think it was important, but I might better write it here, maybe that can be part of the problem.

Sometimes and I can´t find a pattern here, my right hip/glute/quad is in pain when I´m walking an laying down, it cause me to limp around.
Sometimes it´s come during my break from training legs and sometime I comes after leg training, no idea what it is and can´t find the course of it. But maybe because of that I somehow compensate and put more pressure on the left knee (the knee I have problems with)?

[Scott Stevenson]

I did bicycle and stretch for 20 minutes today, pain free.
But walking up and down the stairs a lot today and that do hurt.

I have always been careful with kneeling down, learned that when I was a mechanic from and older guy who developed knee problems from it.
So I rarely do it and try to always use a pad if I do for longer periods.

But honestly I doubt my work is causing me the problems, over the past 16 days offshore I worked a total of 12 hours and that´s quite normal for me. So most of the day is sitting with the computer or watching movies in the sofa.

Yeah only 30 years old and been to gym only 10 of those.

I will get an appointment with the sports massage therapist I know and see what he can do. He did save my lower back last time.

Yeah that´s the part of the muscle I really feel when I work out.

I have one thing I have left out because I didn´t think it was important, but I might better write it here, maybe that can be part of the problem.

Sometimes and I can´t find a pattern here, my right hip/glute/quad is in pain when I´m walking an laying down, it cause me to limp around.
Sometimes it´s come during my break from training legs and sometime I comes after leg training, no idea what it is and can´t find the course of it. But maybe because of that I somehow compensate and put more pressure on the left knee (the knee I have problems with)?

That right side issue is an important clue - there is some asymmetry here (obviously).

I'd definitely look for a leg length discrepancy.

-S

[Jen]

I've never heard of the kwan loong oil and just looked it up. Looks to me like I need to have this on hand.
People even use it to clear their sinuses!

I need to check it out too. Made me chuckle a bit as when I had tracking issues myself a year ago... My Dad literally told me to put WD40 on my knee. Maybe this is what he actually meant! Ha!

[dens228]

I need to check it out too. Made me chuckle a bit as when I had tracking issues myself a year ago... My Dad literally told me to put WD40 on my knee. Maybe this is what he actually meant! Ha!

WD40 and duct tape, with those two things you can repair anything.
I actually ordered the oil. I'm hoping the anticipated arrival of March 1st is wrong.

[Scott Stevenson]

WD40 and duct tape, with those two things you can repair anything.
I actually ordered the oil. I'm hoping the anticipated arrival of March 1st is wrong.

I'd try another source. I usually get it in 2 days with Amazon Prime.

-S

[Doc D]

So most of the day is sitting with the computer or watching movies in the sofa. [...]
Sometimes and I can´t find a pattern here, my right hip/glute/quad is in pain when I´m walking an laying down, it cause me to limp around.

Try standing more (I'm typing at a standing desk right now). Sitting tends to reinforce a variety of patterns and restrictions deleterious to bodily health and function. When you're standing, make sure to avoid anterior pelvic tilt, and take advantage of the position to fire your glutes as hard as you can (use hands on each side to confirm that you are also contracting the gluteus medius, not just maximus). This is also a great chance to practise locking your core as hard as possible at the same time (the co-contraction is invaluable when squatting etc.).
Standing also gives you the chance to drop down into a deep squat a few times a day and stay down in the hole (30 secs is good - no reason not to do 5 mins or so if you feel like it). Make sure that your knees track out - you can even use your elbows against inner thigh to push out. Learning to create a nice space into which your gut can drop when squatting is a very useful skill...
Training the VMO to fire is, I found, fantastically difficult, esp. in the presence of patellar pain. Petersen step-ups, terminal knee extensions with bands, EMS units etc. - everything that one could try in order to 'isolate' the VMO - was less effective for me than viewing the pain as a systemic symptom. Once the systemic issues have been addressed, it then becomes possible to perform movements in a way that allows the affected area to re-learn correct function within the context of a coordinated muscular effort. It seems counter-intuitive, but over the years, I've tended to find that resolution of a problem in a specific area will depend on identifying causes which lie elsewhere (and often where one would not originally have thought to look). But 'tightness' in gluteus medius is always a good place to start when addressing lateral knee pain...

[Frito]

Try standing more (I'm typing at a standing desk right now). Sitting tends to reinforce a variety of patterns and restrictions deleterious to bodily health and function. When you're standing, make sure to avoid anterior pelvic tilt, and take advantage of the position to fire your glutes as hard as you can (use hands on each side to confirm that you are also contracting the gluteus medius, not just maximus). This is also a great chance to practise locking your core as hard as possible at the same time (the co-contraction is invaluable when squatting etc.).
Standing also gives you the chance to drop down into a deep squat a few times a day and stay down in the hole (30 secs is good - no reason not to do 5 mins or so if you feel like it). Make sure that your knees track out - you can even use your elbows against inner thigh to push out. Learning to create a nice space into which your gut can drop when squatting is a very useful skill...
Training the VMO to fire is, I found, fantastically difficult, esp. in the presence of patellar pain. Petersen step-ups, terminal knee extensions with bands, EMS units etc. - everything that one could try in order to 'isolate' the VMO - was less effective for me than viewing the pain as a systemic symptom. Once the systemic issues have been addressed, it then becomes possible to perform movements in a way that allows the affected area to re-learn correct function within the context of a coordinated muscular effort. It seems counter-intuitive, but over the years, I've tended to find that resolution of a problem in a specific area will depend on identifying causes which lie elsewhere (and often where one would not originally have thought to look). But 'tightness' in gluteus medius is always a good place to start when addressing lateral knee pain...

Thanks Doc, I will try being more on my feet's, do small walk around´s.
I will come back when I have implemented all your guys advices and tell if there was any help.