Ongoing Soreness in Quads

[Scott Stevenson]

I've been doing leg pump sets (in superset fashion) as per the FT E-Book but I feel that they are not so much a pump set (in comparison to my other exercises on chest, back, delts, calves etc). Particularly the 1st compound exercise of the superset. I'm using a weight on my compound leg pump sets that lets me to get to failure somewhere between 15 - 25 reps but this 1st set still ends up a 'balls to the wall set' and thats why I refer to it as a widow maker type set, maybe not the right term but it certainly feels like it.

I'm not sure how your thigh pump sets differ from those for other muscle groups. Do you just train harder?...

There should be continuous tension during the entire set, so no stopping. A widow maker is intentionally discontinuous so you can get as many reps as possible without resting by putting the load down.

So for example, on a Lower Load Day #1, I might do something like:

Leg Presses: 330kgs x 13 (1 rep short of failure)
2 min rest
Zig Zag: Leg Ext: 70kg x 15 (failure)
2min rest
Leg Presses: 300kg x 12 (failure)

OK, so if you're going to do sort of mid-Tier version like this (only one isolation exercise), I'd make that isolation exercise a ham exercise, not a quad one (at least for the time being).

..,..then on a 'Leg Pump' day an example would be something like:

Leg Presses: 280kgs x 25 (failure)
Lunges: Body weight + 10kg DB's x 50 paces
Seated Calf: 20kgs x 30 (failure)
1 minute rest
Leg Presses: 220kg x 15 (failure
Seated Leg Curls: 40kgs x 30 (failure)

Lunges really can't be used for pump sets b/c you can don't continuous reps when taking steps.

I get the impression I'm treating my 'Leg Pump' days like a high rep but still overly heavyish leg day and not a lighter Pump day as you envisioned in the e-book?

You're doing something different in the execution, I think, even when doing the reps continuously, but the main thing I'm seeing is doing discontinuous reps, which can be a much tougher way of doing these.

IMO I'm Quad dominant in leg my exercises. Body wise my quads are more developed in both size and strength compared to my upper body. (pic attached)

What's more relevant here is your quad vs. ham dominance (not quad vs. upper body)...

I never had issues with knee/quad pain before and throughout my training years I've pretty much have always used a low volume/frequency approach (Mentzer/Yates). FT is a turn around in both Volume and Frequency so to speak but jumped on board and have loved every minute of it. I've just hit a temporary speed bump thats all!!

I'm still increasing either a rep or two or small weight increments each workout on 45 deg Leg Presses, Horizontal Machine Leg Presses, Vertical and Machine Leg Presses and Leg Ext, Ham exercises.

In regards to Leg Extensions, I've never suffered from knees pain doing Leg Extensions not matter what weight I use, so I'm confident this is not the cause. The pain/uncomfortableness is certainly more prominent on squats and I can feel it just warming up with the bar. I recently began to stall on both Barbell and Smith Squats so I dropped them as I assumed they where the cause of all this.

This is the key thing I would advise against - if an exercise is causing pain, right form the get go, don't do it. Find another one and if they all cause pain, find a treatment (which you could / should do anyway).

I've avoided what I feel is certain overuse injuries continuously for years upon years by just using some common sense so to speak and self-restraint and NOT done exercises that were exacerbating / causing / flaring up arthritis, tendonitis, etc.

Even on the Leg Press type exercises I can feel a dull pain after only 1 rep into the set. Having thought about it little more to try and narrow the origin of the pain itself I guess I could pin point it in two places.

I would do one rep and then find something else

1. I feel a dull pain emanating around the top of the knee cap on both knees.

2. Also feel a dull pain high up on both front upper/outer area of the quads - just below the hips.

I can't diagnose you, but this looks like patellar tendonitis and what I had for a while a few years back (top of the thigh issue). #2 was from my belt catching / driving into my thighs at the bottom of squatting movements. I moved my belt up my waist and it was fixed.

In regards to stretches I either do a 1 minute Sissy Squat stretch or alternatively a standard flexibility type stretch where I stand on one leg and pull my other leg/ankle up to my buttocks. I also do groin stretches. I will add that I do my stretches after my entire workout and not straight after completing the body part I'm working.

I'm going to guess that the stretches also aggravate / create the pain we're taking about here(?)...

I'd drop the sissy squat stretch and a unilateral stretch (if it's pain free) like you describe above, except use the round thigh pad you find on some lat pulldown machines (put your foot on top of that and drive you hips forward).

Do you stretches after training the muscle group you're stretching. This will create a metabolic stress effect you're not getting from doing them after the muscle is recovered, whereas doing the stretches when "cold" means the connective tissue is less pliable (lower temperature) so you've got less potential to increase flexibility (theoretically), but you'll be stretching more along the longitudinal axis of the muscle (series elastic component) and less perpendicular to this axis (under stretch b/c of the edema d/t the pump you've just causes), which would hypothetically stretch the muscle to allow for greater volume. (This 2nd part is a bit iffy, but if you get greater range of motion on the stretch, the when cold, this will pull MORE on the patellar tendon, which isn't happy right now, whereas there probably is no true need for improving flexibility so the focus here should be on metabolic stress.)

If you do an occlusion stretch (without trying to stretch too much but rather focusing on the effort in creating occlusion), you'll get more stimulus from your quads.

STILL - if the stretching causes pain (when warm or cold), i'd NOT try to force a stretch at all.

The various compound Leg movements I have been using over my blasts have been:

Barbell Squats
Smith Squats
Smith Front Squats
45 degree Leg Presses
Vertical Machine Leg Presses
Horizontal Machine Leg Presses
Seated Upright Leg Presses (Cable type machine)

Isolation movements for Zig-Zagging sets.

Leg Extensions
Split Squats (Dumbell)
Lunges
Sissy Squats

Seated Leg Curls
Standing Leg Curls
Lying Leg Curls
Stiff-Leg Deadlifts

I'd drop the lunges and split squats (if you're alternating legs as with a lunge) for now and stick with things like leg extension, sissy squat, somersault squats and smith sissy hack squats.

-S