Back thickness.

[Spud]

Struggling with back thickness. Especially in upper back. If I rack pull or deadlift I feel nothing in my back really (maybe due to going too heavy?)
was wondering thoughts on higher rep loading sets with the big compounds? I'm not too old (29) but I have a un-repaired bicep tear from years back that kind of hinders heavy rowing. 
I do also load lower back with my job 1×hrs a day so I try to baby that a bit also, so rack pulls may be better option over deads? 
Maybe 12-15 range? 
But if doing that, should pump sets be higher rep range also? 
Kicking myself in the ass, I planned on driving to Scott's seminar in Brandenton but wasn't able to. Now I'm kicking myself in the ass, since he could've helped in person! Always next time. 

Pics for reference. Back is super shallow. 

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Bud!

So we're on the same page, where would expect to feel it in your back when it comes to back thickness?... 

What exercises do you feel work for you for back thickness?... 

What kinds of loads are you moving with deads and rack deads?... (What's your height / weight?...)

-S

[Spud]

Upper back is primary goal, trap thickness/ rhomboids, I feel like that is extremely shallow.
When I rack pull heavier I tend to feel pulling in the chest for some odd reason too.
Deads I don't do much but 405x10-12( continous reps not bouncing but not resetting each rep)
Rack pulls from knee 550x6 with a slow eccentric/ no bounce) 
Block pulls (2-3 inches below knee 495x4)
Height 5'3 weight while doing these movements 170-175 
Am I just too weak for what I'm thinking I should have size carryover wise?

I don't have any go to for upper back thickness, I figured it would go hand in hand with rowing movements and for past 2 years it helps lats but nothing else imo. 
Movements I've used primarily. 
-Prime row machine
-Chest support t bar
-1 arm Cable row
-Dy low row
Pullup assist with elbows in

Shoulder width Mag cable row (last 3 months)
Last 3 weeks I started fortitude and been using
1 arm db row, deadlifts, block pulls (loading)
Dual bent over db row, chest support t bar, Prime row machine (Mr and clusters)

I was thinking of doing some pre exhaustion prior to deadlifts for traps and rhomboids then going into loading sets for deads. And seeing if that helps me activate, based off of a podcast you did woth Scott McNally. 
Maybe with use of bands?


 

[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Bud!

I think you're on the right track with pre-exhausting Before loading sets by doing a set of shrugs using the DY row, supported T-bar, Supported incline, as well as just good old shrugs with a BB / DB's would be a great way to re-direct the loading to the traps, rhomboids and fine tune a mind-muscle connection there.

I'd also include the following :

Do a MR for back thickness that is just one of those horizontal / inclined / vertical plane shrugging movements.
DO the same for pump sets.
Make sure you back stretch is in the above plane of motion (e.g., lying on a T-bar Row doing an extreme stretch or doing an occlusion stretch at that angle.

I'd also include 1 ½ rep sets for rowing movements with the half rep at the bottom of the ROM (arms straight).   

E.g., on a seated row, you'd start with the arms extended and do a ½ rep that is simply starting in a (safe) stretched position, then doing shoulder girdle retraction (short hold at he top), then back to stretch, then back to solid (mid-range of what you just did) for the starting point of a full rep where you're keeping focus on the upper traps / rhomboids, being sure to pull them fully back at the endpoint ("squeeze") of the ROM of the full rep and keeping them engaged during the eccentric.

The above will mean pretty slow rep tempo so you keep the activation pattern focused on the upper traps.

You can do the above with any chest supported row (T-bar, DY, machines, DB rows on bench, etc.)

----

For pump sets, I'd do partials per the above, too: Shrugs in the arms extended position. 5's into the Hole would be a winner here, I think!  You could also do partials at other points in the ROM where  / if it feels comfortable, i.e., you feel you can activate the upper back properly.

----

Take the above learned skill (keeping the traps / rhomboids active) and then put it to use with the DB rows, and DL varieties, but keeping a strong contraction with the upper traps.

For Rowing, I'd let the shoulder girdle move with the movement, so it's not locked in place  - you're trying to get the shoulder girdle (Traps, rhomboids) movement to be part of the ROM.

For the deadlifting movements, this probably won't be safe, but instead, I'd lock the shoulder girdle in place from the get go and really contract hard there. (DL's are largely an isometric contraction in the back musculature, so they're producing growth there simply b/c the load is so high. (Those are def. good lifts at your weight, so you're not weak there at all!)

-S

[Spud]

thanks Scott! 

did upper loading work already this week, so when i do my pump work and MR work definitely going to  implement this stuff. 
when i did my loading sets i decide on a deadlift/ straight bar pulldown. 
i noticed when i allowed scapular retraction on the pulldown i got a ton more feel in upper back. also, i used a deadlift bar for the first time. unsure if being able to pull the slack out the bar easier thus allowing my shoulders to lock back was the winner here, but upper back felt great and that was first time being sore at all from these movements in years (in targeted areas). 
when i do pump work today I'm definitely going to do either 5 in the holes or the 1.5 scapular retraction/ whole movement and really let the upper back work. 

again, thanks for input. trying to put logs together on laptop so overtime i can drop them after each blast, with pics. 

[Scott Stevenson]

You're welcome!

Sounds like this could be one hell of a strategy!   (Might even have to watch out for applying too much stimulus to that area at some point.)

(And yes, shoulder girdle pro- and retraction will be important here, I think!)

-S

thanks Scott! 

did upper loading work already this week, so when i do my pump work and MR work definitely going to  implement this stuff. 
when i did my loading sets i decide on a deadlift/ straight bar pulldown. 
i noticed when i allowed scapular retraction on the pulldown i got a ton more feel in upper back. also, i used a deadlift bar for the first time. unsure if being able to pull the slack out the bar easier thus allowing my shoulders to lock back was the winner here, but upper back felt great and that was first time being sore at all from these movements in years (in targeted areas). 
when i do pump work today I'm definitely going to do either 5 in the holes or the 1.5 scapular retraction/ whole movement and really let the upper back work. 

again, thanks for input. trying to put logs together on laptop so overtime i can drop them after each blast, with pics.