FT Questions....

[Scott Stevenson]

Well I typically train

Tues: lower load upper pump
Thurs: upper load lower pump
Sat: lower MR's
Sun: upper MR's

I'll just pick up where I left off and then auto regulate based on recovery. I just thought there may be a definitive no no.

Really, if shifting one training session around a day or so would / could be so detrimental that it's just an absolute "no no" then chances are, you're in need of a cruise.

IF you know you won't be able to get a session in on that Sunday (in your weekly plan), then I'd just use a Family Man style approach and combine Days 3 and 4.



-S

[Scott Stevenson]

Sorry for not being very specific, I was commuting at the time hahah

So by "exact" I was referring to the nutrient timing recommendations - pro/fat meals up until the workout window then introducing carbs peri and post

By maintenance I've found I can maintain my weight at 4000 kcals so yeah, more so " exact estimation "

Within that 4k I've been having 200g pro which is slightly above 1g/lb as I'm hovering around 189-191lbs - this was sufficient to maintain and even grow a but of muscle mass in my cutting phase

I realise protein is highly thermic so I was thinking introducing kcals to create a surplus through protein would serve me well for staying lean etc. Plus dantes anecdotal evidence of very high protein diets having his trainees grow like weeds while staying lean

So yeah - maybe starting out I'll bump protein up to 300g from 200g to create a "400 kcal" surplus which may well be more like a 300 surplus due to thermogenesis and adjust from there
To keep gaining

The studies of having no changes of fat free mass with the surplus of protein kcals is really what is driving me to experiment with this super high protein intake as it will serve me well to start lean and on sky high kcals when I decide to cut down for a show (after probably 32 blasts... lol)

Sounds like a good plan overall, mainly in the you are isolating the macronutrient that is the source of the increased calories.

This should give you some interesting insight.

(BTW, I'm not sure how you count macros, but if you're just doing so by categorizing foods as being of only one macronutrient, you may be getting more than 200g of protein in actuality.)

-S

[patjohnhyde]

Sounds like a good plan overall, mainly in the you are isolating the macronutrient that is the source of the increased calories.

This should give you some interesting insight.

(BTW, I'm not sure how you count macros, but if you're just doing so by categorizing foods as being of only one macronutrient, you may be getting more than 200g of protein in actuality.)

-S

Cool!

Regarding how I count macros I do track everything i.e trace fats & carbs in oats etc. Just helps me feel like I'm being 100% accountable

Will update you on my results after this blast

[Kleen]

Scott, I have a question for how you would modify FT for someone just starting out? I know this is a training program for those who are advanced enough to really know their bodies, or recognize the go to exercises to use. However, my daughter is starting to lift with me and wants to focus on her physique first now before trying to do a PL meet which I think is an excellent idea to get her a base of experience before she goes trying maximal lifts.

Rather than ask you to modify the layout for me I will list out some thoughts on how we can train within the same split, but not start really pushing the failure and intensity for a few months until I know the basic skills are there to do so.

Load Days - the thought for her was to do working warm up sets, and then the "work set" have her go until I see any sign of form degradation, or the rep becomes too slow where I think she may lose form on the next rep. In other words maybe 2 very hard reps left in the tank.

Pump Work - I feel like she can probably do the pump work as straight sets, but probably no reason to go into the partials initially.

Muscle Round Days - depending on the exercise do muscle rounds to 1 point of failure then stop, then gradually build up the volume to the 6 rounds, or choose a lighter weight that is just very challenging for her to complete all 6 rounds but she never quite reaches failure.

Option 2 - Just get her broken in with me on the MR days I am doing for a bit then start the actual split working her to failure on the exercises we choose to use machines for but not to failure with free weights. IE Failure on Leg Press, Not Squats, Failure on Chest Press Machine but not Barbell Bench... or would you do something like Option 1 then build into Option 2.

Option 3 - Just do the program as written and keep a very close eye on her and her form on all movements. Her natural recovery ability will control the pace at which she progresses.

A little history on my daughters fitness level. She is 13 years old, and very active, is on her schools dance team, as well as being a Black Belt and currently working toward her 2nd Dan. She was also in gymnastics for 2 years, so physical activity and high intensity are not foreign to her at all. Years of body weight PT from Karate, and the dance training have a pretty solid base of muscle built on her already but now we are venturing into the world of weights for her. She wants to get in shape and try to do a figure show in the next year or so. She has decided to embrace her natural thickness and muscularity rather than fight it, and wants to turn it into greatness. So I am here to help.

[dougphillips]

Hi Doc,
I've read some of your previous writings/interviews on pre workout nutrition specifically as well as re-read FT e-book Diet portion (And an interview in '11 with John Meadows on the subject) so as it stands (please correct me if I'm wrong or if this has changed) you employ a protein fat, low carb pre meal prior to training. I have 40g carb from cream of rice 25g P from whey iso pre workout, 40g Carb HBCD Intra (Recovery factor + other ingredients), and post workout is 6oz Lean beef and 60g carb from rice; my question is: Would I be better served in your opinion to take out pre workout carbs and increase them via intra/post? (I also use GDA pre/post workout meal)

I have about 2 months left of offseason, so I'm looking to get that last push of calories before dieting down
Thanks!

[Kleen]

Hi Doc,
I've read some of your previous writings/interviews on pre workout nutrition specifically as well as re-read FT e-book Diet portion (And an interview in '11 with John Meadows on the subject) so as it stands (please correct me if I'm wrong or if this has changed) you employ a protein fat, low carb pre meal prior to training. I have 40g carb from cream of rice 25g P from whey iso pre workout, 40g Carb HBCD Intra (Recovery factor + other ingredients), and post workout is 6oz Lean beef and 60g carb from rice; my question is: Would I be better served in your opinion to take out pre workout carbs and increase them via intra/post? (I also use GDA pre/post workout meal)

I have about 2 months left of offseason, so I'm looking to get that last push of calories before dieting down
Thanks!

I am definitely no Scott, but it seems if you are wanting to push calories you do not have to move the preworkout calories to post workout. Simply add more calories post workout or throughout the entire periworkout window.

Carbs pre-workout for some end up slowing down the system a bit and negatively effecting performance. However for others it greatly improves performance. So,
I have a feeling Scott may say something along the lines of if you perform better with carbs in your pre workout meal then continue doing that, and just increase the carbs intra and post. He tends to ask us to self assess and go with what works best for us individually.

If you just don't know for sure then just give it a shot, and see how you respond. You don't really have anything to lose here either way. Certainly timing and what not make a difference in the situation, but the bottom line is whether you increase your caloric intake across the day, or only in your post workout meal the biggest factor is still the increase in calories. So if nothing drastically improves by the changes you still made progress simply by adding in calories. If you notice greater partitioning from placing carbs in a different position then you know you have made a nutrient timing improvement.

From what I read, this is how Scott does his now. He has a protein + fat only pre workout meal. Then he starts to drink his intraworkout drink which is carb heavy as he is starting his warm up, and that his warm up takes about 15 minutes. That is about the amount of time it takes for the carbs from the drink to start getting into the system so even at that point the carbs are kind of pre-workout.

[dougphillips]

Hi Kleen,
Thanks for your input! I think I may try that approach of protein/fat pre, and upping my intra and post workout- I also think this may help with absorption of stim/other effects from the Preworkout on a lesser full stomach. Do you think a GDA prior to training and consuming Intra shake would be ideal then?

I am definitely no Scott, but it seems if you are wanting to push calories you do not have to move the preworkout calories to post workout. Simply add more calories post workout or throughout the entire periworkout window.

Carbs pre-workout for some end up slowing down the system a bit and negatively effecting performance. However for others it greatly improves performance. So,
I have a feeling Scott may say something along the lines of if you perform better with carbs in your pre workout meal then continue doing that, and just increase the carbs intra and post. He tends to ask us to self assess and go with what works best for us individually.

If you just don't know for sure then just give it a shot, and see how you respond. You don't really have anything to lose here either way. Certainly timing and what not make a difference in the situation, but the bottom line is whether you increase your caloric intake across the day, or only in your post workout meal the biggest factor is still the increase in calories. So if nothing drastically improves by the changes you still made progress simply by adding in calories. If you notice greater partitioning from placing carbs in a different position then you know you have made a nutrient timing improvement.

From what I read, this is how Scott does his now. He has a protein + fat only pre workout meal. Then he starts to drink his intraworkout drink which is carb heavy as he is starting his warm up, and that his warm up takes about 15 minutes. That is about the amount of time it takes for the carbs from the drink to start getting into the system so even at that point the carbs are kind of pre-workout.

[Kleen]

I think that is a great idea on the no carb pre-workout, then sipping the intra starting just before your warmup. I would definitely add some more carbs to your intra drink, then get in the practice of finishing off the drink immediately post workout if it is not gone already. Then go for the post workout meal. Say if you really wanted to push things on training days you could add 100 grams of carbs that is 400 calories. Just bump the intra-workout drink by 55g of carbs and add a cup of rice to your post workout meal and you are done! If you are worried about fat gain then obviously don't make that big of a jump. You are more familiar with your metabolism so you would want to decide that.

I am kind of ambivalent on the GDA prior to the workout, especially if not having carbs in the pre-workout meal. Without carbs pre-workout and using that I might be a little concerned with the possibility of going a little hypo before the carbs from the intra workout get into the system. The glut-4 translocaton (what causes exercise induced insulin sensitivity in muscle) is going to start pulling in nutrients once you start working, if the carbs don't get into the system in time blood sugar could drop temporarily causing weakness or dizzyness. Now this exercise induced increase in insulin sensitivity is only in the muscle tissue which is part of the reason the people say the best time for a lot of calories is the peri-workout window. You are far less likely to store fat when Glut4 is pulling everything it can into the muscle tissue. So I am not really sure that you need it there.

I do think that a GDA post workout or even mid workout is a good idea, I also think you want to look at your GDA and make sure it focuses more on Glut 4 increased sensitivity than overall sensitivity. In other words ones that act on the insulin receptors in the muscle but do not increase sensitivity in fat cells. Berberine is probably my favorite in that aspect but some get some softer bowels from it. I think there is another one that is a compound of fenugreek that does this well too. So I tend to look for those, but really post workout when most of the Glut4 is already activated taking something that increases overall insulin sensitivity is still going to be limited on fat gain due to the extreme thirst of the muscle tissue created by the glut 4 translocation reaction to training.

Probably deeper into that then you were asking but that's how my mind thinks.

[dougphillips]

Thanks for the ideas Kleen, I think I’m going to try the protein/fat pre workout and up intra and post carbs. The GDA I use does have Berberine in it =). I appreciate the thought out response!

I think that is a great idea on the no carb pre-workout, then sipping the intra starting just before your warmup. I would definitely add some more carbs to your intra drink, then get in the practice of finishing off the drink immediately post workout if it is not gone already. Then go for the post workout meal. Say if you really wanted to push things on training days you could add 100 grams of carbs that is 400 calories. Just bump the intra-workout drink by 55g of carbs and add a cup of rice to your post workout meal and you are done! If you are worried about fat gain then obviously don't make that big of a jump. You are more familiar with your metabolism so you would want to decide that.

I am kind of ambivalent on the GDA prior to the workout, especially if not having carbs in the pre-workout meal. Without carbs pre-workout and using that I might be a little concerned with the possibility of going a little hypo before the carbs from the intra workout get into the system. The glut-4 translocaton (what causes exercise induced insulin sensitivity in muscle) is going to start pulling in nutrients once you start working, if the carbs don't get into the system in time blood sugar could drop temporarily causing weakness or dizzyness. Now this exercise induced increase in insulin sensitivity is only in the muscle tissue which is part of the reason the people say the best time for a lot of calories is the peri-workout window. You are far less likely to store fat when Glut4 is pulling everything it can into the muscle tissue. So I am not really sure that you need it there.

I do think that a GDA post workout or even mid workout is a good idea, I also think you want to look at your GDA and make sure it focuses more on Glut 4 increased sensitivity than overall sensitivity. In other words ones that act on the insulin receptors in the muscle but do not increase sensitivity in fat cells. Berberine is probably my favorite in that aspect but some get some softer bowels from it. I think there is another one that is a compound of fenugreek that does this well too. So I tend to look for those, but really post workout when most of the Glut4 is already activated taking something that increases overall insulin sensitivity is still going to be limited on fat gain due to the extreme thirst of the muscle tissue created by the glut 4 translocation reaction to training.

Probably deeper into that then you were asking but that's how my mind thinks.

[patjohnhyde]

Hey Scott,

Having read through some of the dieting threads I've seen that you like to maintain training day caloric intake, specifically peri-workout caloric intake and then establish caloric deficit on rest days in order to maintain performance / recovery etc

Do you take this approach when gaining too? So keeping kcals at maintenance on rest days and then establishing the surplus on training days? Perhaps this could help with controlling body fat increases and even make your training performance and recovery improve as more kcals are being shoved In when you are most receptive to them

As a side note, what are your thoughts on max rate of muscle gain on a weekly basis? I've read some articles saying that you can probably only build 0.5lbs of pure muscle tissue per week, obviously there may be slight variations due to genetics,muscle memory etc. But would you say aiming for 0.5lb weight gain per week is a good starting point?

Thanks!

Thanks!