Thigh exercises

[flairsjobber]

Scott, I was wondering your thoughts on using Mark Bell's Slingshot on flat BB bench for Muscle Rounds. I took everybody's advice and stayed away from doing flat bench while doing DC, but with DC there is 3 failure points and with a MR there is only one. The Slingshot keeps form in almost perfect check, so do you think it would be a useful tool for MR or maybe even pump sets. This of course would be done in a powercage.

[Scott Stevenson]

Scott, I was wondering your thoughts on using Mark Bell's Slingshot on flat BB bench for Muscle Rounds. I took everybody's advice and stayed away from doing flat bench while doing DC, but with DC there is 3 failure points and with a MR there is only one. The Slingshot keeps form in almost perfect check, so do you think it would be a useful tool for MR or maybe even pump sets. This of course would be done in a powercage.

I've not used one of those, but have heard good reports about the product.

If flat bench (with the slingshot) is a good movement for you, then I'd say go for it (in the cage, etc.).

FWIW, I have the same cautions about flat bench as Dante has - it seems to really be a source of pec tears - esp. with the elbow high in a BB'er style.


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I've actually done flat bench coupled with a BO row for pump sets before on a day when that felt like it would be a good movement. It was a quick n' dirty way to get those done: Do the Flat bench pump set and set the bar on the lower support - stand up and pick the same weight up for BO rows right afterwards. (For me, the weight was about right that way.)

-S

[flairsjobber]

Well the hip belt was a huge success yesterday. I not only used it for MR for thighs by doing smith squats and then doing Summersault squats,but I also used it for calves. I simply hooked up to the bar just like I did for smith squats and stood on calf blocks. It really hit the calves nicely.

You turned me onto a piece of equipment that will be a stable in my lifting routines from now on.

I used my slingshot for Flat Bench BB MR today and it went really smooth.

What I'm finding out is, the fun of this routine is coming up with different ways to do the old tried and tested lifts to keep things fresh.

I finished my 2nd week of FT today and I have been sore everyday, not a suffering can't move around sore, but the feels great soreness you get from hitting the muscles just right.

I honestly think I can tell a difference already in my appearance.

[Scott Stevenson]

Well the hip belt was a huge success yesterday. I not only used it for MR for thighs by doing smith squats and then doing Summersault squats,but I also used it for calves. I simply hooked up to the bar just like I did for smith squats and stood on calf blocks. It really hit the calves nicely.

You turned me onto a piece of equipment that will be a stable in my lifting routines from now on.

I used my slingshot for Flat Bench BB MR today and it went really smooth.

What I'm finding out is, the fun of this routine is coming up with different ways to do the old tried and tested lifts to keep things fresh.

I finished my 2nd week of FT today and I have been sore everyday, not a suffering can't move around sore, but the feels great soreness you get from hitting the muscles just right.

I honestly think I can tell a difference already in my appearance.

AWESOME STUFF!!!!

Yes, that hip squat belt is a gold mine of new exercises. I think b/c it's the kind of thing that would walk off in a gym, it's not something that's found in more places / used more. You can use it for dips and weighted pull-ups and chins, too, of course.

Yes, the variety makes things really fun and spurs new growth, too.

Are you doing any progress pics or measurements?...

-S

[flairsjobber]

I have measurements and will be doing some pics after the whole blast. I try not to scale watch, or check measurements too soon or often. I can see a difference in my abs and my thighs are tighter in my pants. My waist is actually a tad bit smaller, so basically I appear to be doing the almost impossible. I've stuck to your recommended diet to the best of my ability, and it really seems to be helping. I'll post some weights and measurements after a couple more weeks.

[Scott Stevenson]

I have measurements and will be doing some pics after the whole blast. I try not to scale watch, or check measurements too soon or often. I can see a difference in my abs and my thighs are tighter in my pants. My waist is actually a tad bit smaller, so basically I appear to be doing the almost impossible. I've stuck to your recommended diet to the best of my ability, and it really seems to be helping. I'll post some weights and measurements after a couple more weeks.

Very nice!!!

Well, it's not impossible to gain muscle and lose fat concurrently - it actually happens quite a bit in studies of untrained folks and extreme situations like ranger training (where the guys are trained before coming in to some degree).

VERY cool to see you doing so well, man.

-S

[flairsjobber]

I'm loving this routine, but I do know me and I know that I will switch up after about 6-9 months and do something different for a few months before coming back to FT. So I was wondering, what if I took your methods of a load set, Muscle Round and a pump set and did it all in one workout. Say I did a set up like a 3 way DC split (push, pull, legs type of set up), where each muscle group was hit every 5 days, and for example on chest, shoulder, tricep day I did a load set of flat bench, then did a MR on incline bench, then finish with a pump set of flys. Would there be any benefit or detriement to doing all three concepts in one workout?

I'm honestly not trying to change FT, you have a great system that I'm enjoying. Just curious if eventually I was to take a break and use a different routine, if the techniques would be useful combined.

[Scott Stevenson]

I'm loving this routine, but I do know me and I know that I will switch up after about 6-9 months and do something different for a few months before coming back to FT. So I was wondering, what if I took your methods of a load set, Muscle Round and a pump set and did it all in one workout. Say I did a set up like a 3 way DC split (push, pull, legs type of set up), where each muscle group was hit every 5 days, and for example on chest, shoulder, tricep day I did a load set of flat bench, then did a MR on incline bench, then finish with a pump set of flys. Would there be any benefit or detriement to doing all three concepts in one workout?

I'm honestly not trying to change FT, you have a great system that I'm enjoying. Just curious if eventually I was to take a break and use a different routine, if the techniques would be useful combined.

There was a program called "Holistic Training" that took that kind of approach: Each workout combined sets of greatly varying rep ranges.

As long as you recover, I've got no reason to believe it wouldn't work.

I've long been curious if there is any possible interference between different stimuli that both evoke hypertrophy if they are at the far ends of the load / metabolic stress continuums, e.g., if one combined into one workout both heavy loading and a blood-flow destruction type of sets, would the the molecular mechanism set in place in any way interfere with one another vs.simply training one way or the other?...

I considered this for FT but the issue can be keeping volume low enough for some folks to permit high frequency: How often can you train a muscle group if you do all three sets types in one workout? (It would likely have to be a 3 way split like you mention above and I preferred to put more of a premium on frequency of training with FT. )

Also, How do you set up the volume tiers to accommodate different folks' recovery abilities? If Tier I were 1 set of each is Tier III three sets of each?... This could work with lower freq. training, of course.

Also, it can be psychologically tough to make the mental switch from load set to MR to Pump set training, just in general. I think focus can, for some folks, be better / different if someone just one one set type to focus on

I also like having enough room in the Loading set volume (higher Tiers) of each workout to include isolation and compound sets in the same workout - this allows for pre-fatiguing. That might be a bit tough in your scenario.

So, yes, you could do that, for sure, and I there are lot of guys who are putting MR's in their workouts (who are also training heavy and doing burn-out sets or widow makers, so they are essentially combining three set types sort of like the FT Set Types into their training).

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But here's what jumps out at me right off the bat with your post: You just started FT and are already thinking about how to change it. There's not a thing wrong about that, but he guys I've seen over the years - and this is mainly with DC training, but now FT - take a program (and an exercise they pick to rotate in their training plan) and work the living hell out of it. They are relentless in that and don't stop for years in many cases.

BUT, I do like that you have planned to simply take a few months off and perhaps go back to FT.

I did DC training - the most basic two and three-way splits - for well over 5 years before changing anything whatsoever. It served me well.

So, I'm just saying - more so for others reading this and not for you, fj - watch out for program hopping. I can't recall seeing someone do well with that approach.

-S

[flairsjobber]

Thanks for such a in depth response. I started not to post the question due to it sounding like I was wanting to change your system before even finishing my first blast. But that really wasn't the case. You have a system that is very deep and soundly constructed. There is nothing my little feeble mind could come up with that could improve upon it. It's actually my love for the routine that got me thinking about how I could incorporate many of it's facets when taking a timed break from FT.

I know it might sound silly to plan on stopping something that is productive, but after 30 years of lifting I have found that switching off a (even a productive) routine keeps things interesting and makes me enjoy the routine even more when I come back to it. I'm into lifting for the joy of it, so if doing a time break makes me continue enjoying working out then I can't see much wrong with it.

I was thinking that it would be a lot to do all 3 methods for each muscle group if I were to attempt the 3 way split. But lets say I do a push day and did all 3 methods for chest, I would probably just do a MR for shoulders and maybe finish off with just a pump for triceps. Since the shoulders and triceps will have already gotten some benefits from the load, MR and pump for chest.

I do apologize if it seemed like I was in anyway implying that your routine isn't sufficient, was not my intention. I was just throwing some ideas out there. And I couldn't think of a better mind to bounce it off from than you.

I hope you had a great New Year. And I'm looking forward to many years of FT.

[Scott Stevenson]

Thanks for such a in depth response. I started not to post the question due to it sounding like I was wanting to change your system before even finishing my first blast. But that really wasn't the case. You have a system that is very deep and soundly constructed. There is nothing my little feeble mind could come up with that could improve upon it. It's actually my love for the routine that got me thinking about how I could incorporate many of it's facets when taking a timed break from FT.

I know it might sound silly to plan on stopping something that is productive, but after 30 years of lifting I have found that switching off a (even a productive) routine keeps things interesting and makes me enjoy the routine even more when I come back to it. I'm into lifting for the joy of it, so if doing a time break makes me continue enjoying working out then I can't see much wrong with it.

I was thinking that it would be a lot to do all 3 methods for each muscle group if I were to attempt the 3 way split. But lets say I do a push day and did all 3 methods for chest, I would probably just do a MR for shoulders and maybe finish off with just a pump for triceps. Since the shoulders and triceps will have already gotten some benefits from the load, MR and pump for chest.

I do apologize if it seemed like I was in anyway implying that your routine isn't sufficient, was not my intention. I was just throwing some ideas out there. And I couldn't think of a better mind to bounce it off from than you.

I hope you had a great New Year. And I'm looking forward to many years of FT.

Hey Bud!

No worries at all! FYI - I answer a lot of question on the board thinking as much about the folks who just read vs. the person who posted them. I literally got a Facebook message just a few hours after posting my last response asking me the same thing.

The main thrust here that you've tuned into (and one that I try to make in the book) is that there are various ways of loading that can create muscle growth. Variety in exercise selection as well as set type both make sense.

I've started calling this conjugate bodybuilding: The notion of combining different hypertrophic stimuli into a single program. It could be all on one day, like you're suggesting, or across a weeks worth of training (undulating) , or in the context of a more traditional type of periodization.

You're actually doing a form or periodization if you plan to do FT for a part of the year and then switch programs for another part: Those could be considered macrocycles.

And I totally agree with doing what brings you joy with the lifting. (As I hope you can tell, I wanted to make FT pretty damn fun, too.. LOL)

You're on to a way I considered setting up a program as well: Just doing two of the set type in a given day. E.g., Rotating through A) Loading and MR, B) MR and Pump, and C) Pump and Loading on successive days.

There are endless ways you could program this out, but it tends to get a bit complicated. (Powerlifters are much better at grasping program configurations than bodybuilders, i get the general impression.)

So, anyway, please note that I'm writing for everyone when I respond. Heck, I've already linked someone to this thread just hours after you posted the idea of combining all Set Types...

HAPPY NEW YEAR to you as well! (I only ask that you'll do FT if it's fun and productive for you... )

-S