Help Arm training

[nordan]

Hi Scott,

Just finished my first blast of 6 weeks basic tier II and coming to the end of my 2 week intensive cruise.

Looking back I have made some great progress in terms of muscle size with everything except arms. My arms in fact have actually lost size, possibly 1/2 an inch even though I have been doing everything correct, progressively overloading and applying and progressing the relevant stretches.

My question being would it be silly to incorporate additional loading sets for arms on day 2? Say 1 for each (biceps/triceps). I feel that maybe the loss in size has come down to the fact that they are not getting stimulated enough in regards to loading and that the inclusion of these additional sets could help grow.

Just so you know both back and chest exercises are being done using these muscles only and I am not engaging arms (secondary muscles) in either of these if you know what I mean ?

Thanks.

[Scott Stevenson]

Hi Scott,

Just finished my first blast of 6 weeks basic tier II and coming to the end of my 2 week intensive cruise.

Looking back I have made some great progress in terms of muscle size with everything except arms. My arms in fact have actually lost size, possibly 1/2 an inch even though I have been doing everything correct, progressively overloading and applying and progressing the relevant stretches.

My question being would it be silly to incorporate additional loading sets for arms on day 2? Say 1 for each (biceps/triceps). I feel that maybe the loss in size has come down to the fact that they are not getting stimulated enough in regards to loading and that the inclusion of these additional sets could help grow.

Just so you know both back and chest exercises are being done using these muscles only and I am not engaging arms (secondary muscles) in either of these if you know what I mean ?

Thanks.

This is the first time that I can recall hearing someone say this.

How much weight did you gain?... (Did you get leaner?...)

Were you using heavy compounds like Rack deads, BO rows for back and barbell presses for your chest and shoulder Compound exercises?...

Have you made your pump sets into absolute and pure torture?...

-S

[nordan]

This is the first time that I can recall hearing someone say this.

How much weight did you gain?... (Did you get leaner?...)

Were you using heavy compounds like Rack deads, BO rows for back and barbell presses for your chest and shoulder Compound exercises?...

Have you made your pump sets into absolute and pure torture?...

-S

If I am honest, I haven't been utilizing the deadlifts or rack dead's due to my foot (broken toes) injury however this has now recovered as of recent so considering on this second blast to incorporate some deads into this phase.

Do you think now is a good opportunity being the start of a phase to change the exercises accordingly? Or do you think sticking with my previous blast exercises and continuing to progressive overload would be more beneficial ?

I have played it safe and used wide grip, neutral grip pull ups , t bar rows and barbell rows for these for the loading sets, unilateral smith row (as demonstrated in one of your instagram vids) & lat pull down variations for the MR's (Pump sets see below). Some exercises I have used Chest wise inc. low incline smith pressing, plate loaded machine presses etc and high inc smith/db press for shoulders. These exercises work for me due to past shoulder injury's from rugby.

Regarding the pump sets, I always fail however I am struggling to get a pump on these at all before that point. For these I am using both seated rows and lat pulldown variation machines, and yes no matter what set type, muscle group I attack at 110%.

I have been under the guidance of JP for the last 3 years so I am sure you understand the training/approach I have undergone . This included more volume for arms in the form of heavy loading sets, rest pause sets etc.

[Scott Stevenson]

If I am honest, I haven't been utilizing the deadlifts or rack dead's due to my foot (broken toes) injury however this has now recovered as of recent so considering on this second blast to incorporate some deads into this phase.

Do you think now is a good opportunity being the start of a phase to change the exercises accordingly? Or do you think sticking with my previous blast exercises and continuing to progressive overload would be more beneficial ?

If deadlifts are good go to exercises for your back, then I'd used them. (Trap bar deads are more a thigh exercise for most folks, however).

I have played it safe and used wide grip, neutral grip pull ups , t bar rows and barbell rows for these for the loading sets, unilateral smith row (as demonstrated in one of your instagram vids) & lat pull down variations for the MR's (Pump sets see below). Some exercises I have used Chest wise inc. low incline smith pressing, plate loaded machine presses etc and high inc smith/db press for shoulders. These exercises work for me due to past shoulder injury's from rugby.

Regarding the pump sets, I always fail however I am struggling to get a pump on these at all before that point. For these I am using both seated rows and lat pulldown variation machines, and yes no matter what set type, muscle group I attack at 110%.

I have been under the guidance of JP for the last 3 years so I am sure you understand the training/approach I have undergone . This included more volume for arms in the form of heavy loading sets, rest pause sets etc.

OK, I inquired about your exercise selection because you said, " Just so you know both back and chest exercises are being done using these muscles only and I am not engaging arms (secondary muscles) in either of these if you know what I mean."

I wasn't sure if you were using entirely isolation exercises.

So, I was referring to your Pump sets for ARMS (bi's and tri's) as that's where you're wanting to increase the stimulus.

But, since you mention that you have a hard time getting a pump, I'm going to guess (as this is how Jordan also likes to do them) that you are using straight sets for your Pump Set, rather than using partials, e.g., things like reverse 21's and 5's into the Hole.

DO a pump set like this where you're hanging on for dear life to keep the weight moving and the muscle contracting before putting the load down and I suspect you'll get a pump.

Literally, the pump sets should be geared toward getting a pump, so if you end up doing 30 reps and they are relatively slow, with squeezing at the top / contracted portion of each rep, using continuous tension and repetitions (especially at the end when you can prolong the set by doing so compared to doing full repetitions).

-S

[nordan]

If deadlifts are good go to exercises for your back, then I'd used them. (Trap bar deads are more a thigh exercise for most folks, however).


OK, I inquired about your exercise selection because you said, " Just so you know both back and chest exercises are being done using these muscles only and I am not engaging arms (secondary muscles) in either of these if you know what I mean."

I wasn't sure if you were using entirely isolation exercises.

So, I was referring to your Pump sets for ARMS (bi's and tri's) as that's where you're wanting to increase the stimulus.

But, since you mention that you have a hard time getting a pump, I'm going to guess (as this is how Jordan also likes to do them) that you are using straight sets for your Pump Set, rather than using partials, e.g., things like reverse 21's and 5's into the Hole.

DO a pump set like this where you're hanging on for dear life to keep the weight moving and the muscle contracting before putting the load down and I suspect you'll get a pump.

Literally, the pump sets should be geared toward getting a pump, so if you end up doing 30 reps and they are relatively slow, with squeezing at the top / contracted portion of each rep, using continuous tension and repetitions (especially at the end when you can prolong the set by doing so compared to doing full repetitions).

-S

You are correct in thinking that the preferred approach here is to do a straight set on the pumps rather than 5's, partials etc, as this is an easier way to manage progressive overload which is the forte of his approach.

Bi's and Tri's don't seem to be an issue here getting the pump unless I use a dumbbell movement where forearms seem to get the love first, which is why I stick to preacher movements as I feel these isolate them fully.. unfortunately they still seem to be regressing for some reason.

What was once a dominant body part for me has now become lagging over the last 8 weeks which is why I was wondering if Its worth me creating more stimulus with the addition of a loading set for each on upper loading days.

I couldn't see how doing so (adding 1) would effect anything or be detrimental and that in my case only it could only be beneficial given the circumstances? I just wanted to ask the boss (you) first especially now that I am at the beginning of a new blast.

In regards to not achieving the pump its primarily Back which is the issue. Chest wise I only really get a pump when doing a pec dec, pec-fly machine movements also.

Cheers S, really appreciate the time you take the respond.

[Scott Stevenson]

You are correct in thinking that the preferred approach here is to do a straight set on the pumps rather than 5's, partials etc, as this is an easier way to manage progressive overload which is the forte of his approach.

Bi's and Tri's don't seem to be an issue here getting the pump unless I use a dumbbell movement where forearms seem to get the love first, which is why I stick to preacher movements as I feel these isolate them fully.. unfortunately they still seem to be regressing for some reason.

What was once a dominant body part for me has now become lagging over the last 8 weeks which is why I was wondering if Its worth me creating more stimulus with the addition of a loading set for each on upper loading days.

At the risk of sounding like I'm calling you out, I'd have to see pictures to see how a truly dominate muscle group could become a lagging one in just 8 weeks. You'd have to have been growing like CRAZY everywhere else... For MOST folks, changing the "symmetry" of lagging or unbalanced muscle group development takes years to remedy if that ever happens.

I couldn't see how doing so (adding 1) would effect anything or be detrimental and that in my case only it could only be beneficial given the circumstances? I just wanted to ask the boss (you) first especially now that I am at the beginning of a new blast.

In regards to not achieving the pump its primarily Back which is the issue. Chest wise I only really get a pump when doing a pec dec, pec-fly machine movements also.

Cheers S, really appreciate the time you take the respond.

What I'm trying to do is show you how to use the finer points of training to bring about the results you seek.

Progressive overload is a staple principle of FT, but the other aspects of the program are there for a reason. (Even in Jordan's case, in the time we've worked together, we've changed some things up - stuff not in the published FT system as of yet - to bring up aspects of his physique.)

For MANY people, heavy loading type training (low reps) is not as beneficial for increase increasing arm size and actually CAN be detrimental in that is brings about an inordinate risk of developing tendinitis (biceps an triceps) compared to a higher rep approach.

Both mechanical load and metabolic stress are stimuli for muscle growth. If you would like to include both, that's a possibility without adding loading sets on top of the standard FT approach, by:

• Choosing weight for your MRs so that you're failing in the 4th set (and keeping the weight drop to a minimum such that you can barely seek out the 4th rep on the 6th set.)

• Make your Pump sets absofrigginlutely diabolically painful by extending them with partials, etc. Make metabolic stress ridiculous here.

• Choose strategies for the Pump sets that you can duplicate relying upon the same exercises so that you can make Pump sets progressive in nature, too. You might be sure to use a rope triceps press down each time you do triceps pump sets, employing a 5's into the Hole approach an nothing the weight and the point in the set where you could no longer complete any of the full repetitions (finishing with partials). Be progressive here using the same exercises week in and week out (as long as you're not getting any niggles) and drop them only to pick up another that you exploit... OR - Formally rotate these exercises in a manner like you do for Loading sets

• Be progressive with the MRs for arms, too, paying close attention to your pool of MR arm exercises and even including a rotation there, as well.

• Pick exercises you may have never done before here. Ever do DB curls seated on an inclinde bench (elbows behind your back) or an overhead cable curl using a lat pulldown machine?... Supine cable curls to the forehead?... How about triceps pressdowns using a ab crunch machine or close grip MR floor presses on a smith machine?...

-----------

So these are some option that will help you learn how to drive adaptation in the future, as your physique progresses when simply adding on more volume really isn't a viable option.

If you get progressively and substantially stronger using the above (AND ARE EATING FOR GROWTH and GAINING WEIGHT in general) over the next 8-12 weeks and can say that your arm Pump sets look like suicide attempts to a casual onlooker, and your arms haven't grown, then - IMO - some other strategies might need to be employed.

-S

[nordan]

At the risk of sounding like I'm calling you out, I'd have to see pictures to see how a truly dominate muscle group could become a lagging one in just 8 weeks. You'd have to have been growing like CRAZY everywhere else... For MOST folks, changing the "symmetry" of lagging or unbalanced muscle group development takes years to remedy if that ever happens.



What I'm trying to do is show you how to use the finer points of training to bring about the results you seek.

Progressive overload is a staple principle of FT, but the other aspects of the program are there for a reason. (Even in Jordan's case, in the time we've worked together, we've changed some things up - stuff not in the published FT system as of yet - to bring up aspects of his physique.)

For MANY people, heavy loading type training (low reps) is not as beneficial for increase increasing arm size and actually CAN be detrimental in that is brings about an inordinate risk of developing tendinitis (biceps an triceps) compared to a higher rep approach.

Both mechanical load and metabolic stress are stimuli for muscle growth. If you would like to include both, that's a possibility without adding loading sets on top of the standard FT approach, by:

• Choosing weight for your MRs so that you're failing in the 4th set (and keeping the weight drop to a minimum such that you can barely seek out the 4th rep on the 6th set.)

• Make your Pump sets absofrigginlutely diabolically painful by extending them with partials, etc. Make metabolic stress ridiculous here.

• Choose strategies for the Pump sets that you can duplicate relying upon the same exercises so that you can make Pump sets progressive in nature, too. You might be sure to use a rope triceps press down each time you do triceps pump sets, employing a 5's into the Hole approach an nothing the weight and the point in the set where you could no longer complete any of the full repetitions (finishing with partials). Be progressive here using the same exercises week in and week out (as long as you're not getting any niggles) and drop them only to pick up another that you exploit... OR - Formally rotate these exercises in a manner like you do for Loading sets

• Be progressive with the MRs for arms, too, paying close attention to your pool of MR arm exercises and even including a rotation there, as well.

• Pick exercises you may have never done before here. Ever do DB curls seated on an inclinde bench (elbows behind your back) or an overhead cable curl using a lat pulldown machine?... Supine cable curls to the forehead?... How about triceps pressdowns using a ab crunch machine or close grip MR floor presses on a smith machine?...

-----------

So these are some option that will help you learn how to drive adaptation in the future, as your physique progresses when simply adding on more volume really isn't a viable option.

If you get progressively and substantially stronger using the above (AND ARE EATING FOR GROWTH and GAINING WEIGHT in general) over the next 8-12 weeks and can say that your arm Pump sets look like suicide attempts to a casual onlooker, and your arms haven't grown, then - IMO - some other strategies might need to be employed.

-S

Scott, thanks for the response. I shall look into the points you mentioned regarding the heavy MR's inc. the other points and implement them.

I shall keep you posted in the future as to how I am getting on.

D

[Scott Stevenson]

Scott, thanks for the response. I shall look into the points you mentioned regarding the heavy MR's inc. the other points and implement them.

I shall keep you posted in the future as to how I am getting on.

D

Cool Beans! You're welcome!

-S