Help Bikini off season

[marisa.watson86]

I've just purchased the ebook and am interested I trying to implement FT. I may be over thinking things but I am curious to get some people's thoughts on switching since FT is a WORLD away from what I've been doing the last year. But I really need to add some size and fullness and I don't feel like my last off season added much (or rather it was effective but not optimal as I feel I could have made more gains as in 6 months I only added 3lbs of stage weight).

I've been training 6 days a week and it's been very high volume. For example my leg day would consist of 4-5 super sets with 4-5 sets each and 20-30 reps for every exercise. Upper body days weren't typically specific as to body part so I trained everything 2-3 times a week (similar reps schemes but one day a week as heavier with 10-12 reps and the other days were more pump days with 20-30 reps). And this was my off season. Cardio in my off season was 20-30 min steady state 6 days a week and in prep was upwards of 30-40 min fasted and 20-30 min post workout and all steady state as well as. Sprints and hiit between lifts.

Needless to say this has been a shit ton of volume with no deload for about a year now. My lifts have all decreased about 20lbs for Lower body and just getting back under heavy weight has been a mindfuck as the mentality is so different with pure volume training.

My question is: because I'm so damned weak now and it's difficult to mentally push the weight would it be better to do an almost "powerbodybuilding" phase just to get under the weight or would jumping into FT be ok and I would just have an extended learning curve in regards to actually moving weight with intensity?

My other concern is it just scares the crap out of me to cut down my volume so dramatically even though FT Still incorporates volume training it's less than I've been doing. I am currently 3 weeks post contest and working on switching my cardio from 6x a week to 3-4 bouts of hiit instead.

Last question: being bikini would it be useful to add in additional glute training? This was slightly touched on in a previous post but not answered directly because of other circumstances. My main critique from judges has been fuller glutes and fuller upper body. I am 5'9 and 1/2" and definitely an ectomorph. My most recent stage weight was 121lbs and almost 3 weeks post contest it has dropped back down to that or below.

I know this is a ridiculously long thread but any advice is appreciated!


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[Scott Stevenson]

Hey Marisa!

I think you tagged me on a post or two on Instagram?... (I've upgraded you to subscriber here on the board - this comes with book purchase - so you should see all the forums now. )

So, you're in a tricky spot. Are you / were you working with a coach?... (What is the reason for the super high volume approach without a deload?...)

If I were you (no, I've never done bikini!), I'd slowly transitioning to some degree over the next 3-4 weeks, as you're in the sticky psychological spot where you've got to accept that you'll lose a little conditioning from the show - that which you've worked so hard for. (But it seems your weight has dropped since the show, so this might not be the case?...)

You might do what you are doing with your cardio as well as dropping your weight training down to 4 days / week (with cardio on two of those other days in part just so you don't have a "oh, shit, I'm not doing ANYTHING 3 days / week" reaction) and take an approach like this in training:

I'd drop my set total to ⅔ of what you've been doing and start logging what you're doing on each exercise, taking the last set (but none of the other ones) to safe stopping / failure point where you can get a measure of performance. (This will be your goal to beat in the future).

After 2-3 weeks off this, you can re-asses where you are in terms of body comp and strength and perhaps consider a deload.

Your strength should come back VERY strong this way and with it, muscle mass, assuming you're eating enough and not continuing to restrict kcal at the level you were when dieting in for the show. (This is another topic - one that's been answered here a few times, I think.)

Yes, you can prioritize glutes with FT: Glutes would be part of "thighs" training so you'd focus your exercises on the glutes, e.g., wide stance deep squats, wide foot placement legs presses, using stiff-legged DL's for hamstrings (Both Laoding and pump sets) and even choosing a glute based exercise for a thigh's MR (like a reverse hyper).

I had a short training stint with a friend here in town who ended up getting her pro card in Bikini and she was glute centric ( in part b/c her thighs and quad especially grew like weeds), so there are lots of options if you run out of ideas.

So, there's a start, but if y ou have a COACH that you were working with previously (that you trust) then I would turn to that person, assuming he / she is on the same page with the switch to FT, etc.

From this training background switching to FT, you should get a LOT of muscle, I would expect. And that your'e naturally lean, you've got a great advantage there in that you'll be able to start eating good bit more, too, but I'd take your time right now and ease into it (as I see you are).

-S

[marisa.watson86]

Thanks for the reply! And yup I tagged you in a post on instagram and I appreciate the subscription to the forums- I've been digging around on them the last few days.

I have been with a the same coach/team the last year and I'm not sure why they don't do a deload or anything but honestly with any of the "bikini specific" coaches I've worked with there hasn't been much semblance of periodization or deloads or anything. And coming from a strength and conditioning background myself that's always been weird to me. So I haven't made any progress in strength but my physique has improved- I just feel like moving forward I need more muscle and a stronger base so I will be doing at least my off season on my own. I've been competing for 3 years now so I feel like I'm at the point where I can take time away from a coach and try a different perspective for myself.

Thank you so much for the advice! As you've said I've started to implement elements of FT just to get my strength back and easing out of cardio (I'm at 4x a week fasted and 2-3x hiit now and will progressively cut back more) and I'm still working on a reverse diet to get back to maintenance calories. I did drop back down to my show weight this week so I'll be doing a refeed and upping calories again (I've been alternating adding in carbs one week and fats the next till I get my fats back. And I've been trying to concentrate carbs around training time in the evening as per FT suggestions).

I'm excited to start- I just have to be patient I guess and ease my way into it to not have a breakdown psychologically! Especially with the focus on intensity I want to feel comfortable under heavy weight again to get the desired response. I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way!


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[Scott Stevenson]

Marissa,

You're welcome!

There is a quite a bit awry with the state of affairs in bikini coaching (and women's physique coaching in general). I hope that you'll find down the road that you can obtain the on stage physique that you desire with much less and much smarter training. (Not to delve into it, but that it's the status quo not to question one's coaches methods - e.g., not / never deloading - is kind of saddening. )((

Sounds like you've got a great plan as far as diet. I suspect there will be a lot of winging it, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, so I suspect you'll be just fine.

Yes, be safe as you transition and don't be afraid to have a few days away from the gym entirely, too. You're doing a TON now and have proven to yourself that you CAN do that, but it's not necessarily the best way to progress.

-S

[marisa.watson86]

Marissa,

You're welcome!

There is a quite a bit awry with the state of affairs in bikini coaching (and women's physique coaching in general). I hope that you'll find down the road that you can obtain the on stage physique that you desire with much less and much smarter training. (Not to delve into it, but that it's the status quo not to question one's coaches methods - e.g., not / never deloading - is kind of saddening. )((

Sounds like you've got a great plan as far as diet. I suspect there will be a lot of winging it, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, so I suspect you'll be just fine.

Yes, be safe as you transition and don't be afraid to have a few days away from the gym entirely, too. You're doing a TON now and have proven to yourself that you CAN do that, but it's not necessarily the best way to progress.

-S

I agree- I've been with a couple different coaches and there is a lot wrong with this industry... everything from leaving people in the dust post show with no reversal and no deloads.... I feel like a lot of these larger "teams" have this bikini girl gauntlet mentality where it's a numbers game. Throw a bunch of junk volume at these girls who may never even lifted before and see what sticks. If you get a couple successes out of hundred of girls your marketing is paid for. I love my coaches as people but after a year with them I'm definitely questioning their methods.

And I definitely needed to hear this: "you... have proven to yourself that you CAN do that, but it's not necessarily the best way to progress. ". Time to work smarter!




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[Scott Stevenson]

I agree- I've been with a couple different coaches and there is a lot wrong with this industry... everything from leaving people in the dust post show with no reversal and no deloads.... I feel like a lot of these larger "teams" have this bikini girl gauntlet mentality where it's a numbers game. Throw a bunch of junk volume at these girls who may never even lifted before and see what sticks. If you get a couple successes out of hundred of girls your marketing is paid for. I love my coaches as people but after a year with them I'm definitely questioning their methods.

Indeed, indeed... And those things are just the more benign... <sigh>

And I definitely needed to hear this: "you... have proven to yourself that you CAN do that, but it's not necessarily the best way to progress. ". Time to work smarter!

Yes - For sure!!! And then, when you've got that down, add in the hard work and LOOK OUT!!! LOL

-S

[marisa.watson86]

So I've been working on tapering my lifting and cardio volume and working more towards intensity and reorganizing my meal timing but have not started FT yet ( probably in the next week or so).

I was interested in the training camps but I wasn't sure if traveling to Arizona when I would only have been doing the program for a week or two would be ideal. Are you going to do more training camps in the future? Or would it be in my best interest to get to this one somehow? (I'd be traveling from Colorado).


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[Scott Stevenson]

So I've been working on tapering my lifting and cardio volume and working more towards intensity and reorganizing my meal timing but have not started FT yet ( probably in the next week or so).

I was interested in the training camps but I wasn't sure if traveling to Arizona when I would only have been doing the program for a week or two would be ideal. Are you going to do more training camps in the future? Or would it be in my best interest to get to this one somehow? (I'd be traveling from Colorado).

Your timing is very interesting!

So, I've only go two folks signed up for the camps in AZ and was going to cancel it actually (one of the campers suggested it - he's a former client of mine from many years ago). (The only two folks singed up are local to Tucson)

If you were to read the book and come prepared by doing FT diligently over the next couple weeks, you'd end up learning a boatload. Timing would be very good, actually. Folks who either have been doing FT for a while and really have some great questions (and just don't spend much time on the board) tend to learn a lot, as well as those in your shoes.

[Just a couple guys have shown up not having read much of anything (and not being especially astute in terms of training methodology, which fits the fact they didn't read the book), have been somewhat confused. These guys were told by their coaches to go to the camp, but didn't put any time in to trying to be prepared.]

I'll probably try another one in Tampa, but its in the UK where I seem to be the most popular, as Ill be over there in November (TBA), I think.

So, let me know - Im gonna ride it out a few more days, but probably cancel pretty soon if Im not getting any more takers.

***FYI, part of this is b/c we scheduled it the same weekend as the Rising Phoenix BB'ing show, which is up the road in Phoenix, probably stealing away about 90% of the folks who would / might want to go to my camp. Not being local to Tucson anymore, I forgot about that show...

-S

[marisa.watson86]

Your timing is very interesting!

So, I've only go two folks signed up for the camps in AZ and was going to cancel it actually (one of the campers suggested it - he's a former client of mine from many years ago). (The only two folks singed up are local to Tucson)

If you were to read the book and come prepared by doing FT diligently over the next couple weeks, you'd end up learning a boatload. Timing would be very good, actually. Folks who either have been doing FT for a while and really have some great questions (and just don't spend much time on the board) tend to learn a lot, as well as those in your shoes.

[Just a couple guys have shown up not having read much of anything (and not being especially astute in terms of training methodology, which fits the fact they didn't read the book), have been somewhat confused. These guys were told by their coaches to go to the camp, but didn't put any time in to trying to be prepared.]

I'll probably try another one in Tampa, but its in the UK where I seem to be the most popular, as Ill be over there in November (TBA), I think.

So, let me know - Im gonna ride it out a few more days, but probably cancel pretty soon if Im not getting any more takers.

***FYI, part of this is b/c we scheduled it the same weekend as the Rising Phoenix BB'ing show, which is up the road in Phoenix, probably stealing away about 90% of the folks who would / might want to go to my camp. Not being local to Tucson anymore, I forgot about that show...

-S

Oh wow! It does sound like good timing! Absolutely if you are still putting it on I can make it! I can up tonight or tomorrow and work on getting a flight and hotel!


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[marisa.watson86]

Ok! I'm all signed up for the seminar- just wanted to make sure it is still on before I book my flight and hotel. Fingers crossed!


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